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		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the topic "the kingdom"]]></title>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ so what's the word guys? is this the next gladiator or the next gigli??]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 2 Aug 2007 20:56:25]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ ashkul88]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well, neither.

It's directed by Michael Mann, who even managed to get some mileage out of Miami Vice.  We're used to his gritty street dramas, like Collateral and Heat.

Jamie Foxx, Jennifer Garner, Chris Cooper, Jason Bateman... you could do a lot worse for a cast.  Granted, it's not as grandiose as Gladiator, but Michael Mann will never, ever be mistaken for Ridley Scott.  Nor should he be.

I think it will do fine, upwards of around $80 million if reviews are good.  If not, around $50.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:39:28]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shryke42]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Allow me to correct you Shryke... The Kingdom is only produced by Mann. It's directed by Peter Berg.   )]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 3 Aug 2007 00:23:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Chienfantome]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I can't wait to see this film in September so i think its going to be great and its got a great cast and a good director in Peter Berg and the test screenings scores are off the charts so that's a good sign.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 3 Aug 2007 05:15:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ transformers2]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I haven't seen much out of Peter Berg besides Friday Night Lights so im not sure what to expect. Michael Mann on the other hand is some straight up gangsta, he gets it done. This film would be awesome with him producing, he must have some reasoning for experimenting with Peter Berg.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:58:33]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ iamhollywood]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Did anybody else think that miami vice was just the dumbest effing movie to make money last year. Man that was a big disappointment.  Next to alexander that is probably my least favorite colin ferrel and jamie foxx movie.(yes i know jamie foxx did not play in alexander thank god)  Anyways I generally tend to like both as actors and miami vice well... sucked big kahonas.

Back to forum.  Kingdom looks pretty good.  Probably rent it when it comes out cause I know my little four screen ain't gettin it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 3 Aug 2007 20:31:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cRAzY]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Ouch, your four screen will probably get stuck with The Game Plan that weekend.]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.fantasymoguls.com/forum/posts/list/311.page#4237</guid>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:12:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ dranscht]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Sorry for the double post. On the topic of The Kingdom though, I liked trailer 2 (the one that came with Chuck and Larry) better than trailer 3 (the one that's attached to Bourne). Mostly because of the music.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 4 Aug 2007 09:12:46]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ dranscht]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'd rather see The Kingdom. But the game plan interests me also. I generally tend to like the rock. Except for be cool.  Huge let down. Great cast.  Crappy movie.  Anyways.  I'll watch the game plan if it comes to my theater.  Depending on my financial status. which isn't to good.  I might go watch the kingdom.  But considering I have to drive an hour to get to another theater, i'll probably just wait for dvd.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:53:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cRAzY]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I think The Game Plan is going to be a dissapointment but thats just my opinion. It has some potential. :P ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 4 Aug 2007 18:01:52]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ iamhollywood]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ 'The Game Plan' feels like 'The Pacifier' (which I wrongly bet against). I've put it on a slate or two in the August-October leagues -- if I get burned again, at least it was only for $4. ]]></description>
				<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.fantasymoguls.com/forum/posts/list/311.page#4271</guid>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 5 Aug 2007 07:49:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ A_Roode]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm banking on "Kingdom" for a few of my leagues based on a soild trailer looks to be the kind of good box office draw .Late]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:49:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Otter]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p></p>

		<cite>cRAzY wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>I'd rather see The Kingdom. But the game plan interests me also. I generally tend to like the rock. Except for be cool.  Huge let down. Great cast.  Crappy movie. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>

I gotta agree with you, Crazy. Before Be Cool came out, I got a free Be Cool hat and wore it cuz it fit well. After I actually saw the movie, I buried it in my closet. That movie was absolutely terrible, and I was so ashamed that even wore that damn hat. I still thought the Rock was about the only funny thing in that celluloid travesty, though. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 6 Aug 2007 13:03:59]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ la_resistance28]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The rock had a few crazy lines in that movie I will admit.  Is there any other movie where he has hair other than this.
Anyways.  What was wrong with the pacifer.  It did what it was intended to do.  A good family movie.  Just cause it had Diesel in it doesn't mean it was going to be a big action movie. I enjoyed it.  Probably my least fav of his but I still enjoyed it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:49:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cRAzY]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Nothing wrong with 'The Pacifier,' cRAzY, only my prediction for how it was going to do when released. I thought it had 'disaster' written all over it and of course the movie did tremendously well when released. In short, I ate my own words. 'The Game Plan,' strikes me as being a similiar kind of movie. I got burned once but would rather have 'The Game Plan' for $4 than get burned again! If it fails? I only spent the $4. I can live with that level of risk and investment.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:46:32]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ A_Roode]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ For four bucks it seems like a hell of a deal to me.  Its a family movie so its bound to make some kind of money. And if it's good enough it'll make a buttload. Its got all the elements for a money maker.  Football action in the right season for it.  The rock. Nuff said.  and typical family humor.  Dont forget the dog in the tu tu.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 9 Aug 2007 17:50:15]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cRAzY]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Back on the topic of The Kingdom, did anyone go to one of those free screenings this week that Flixster was advertising?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 9 Aug 2007 23:35:09]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ dranscht]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Saturday night, I caught a sneak preview tonight of a film I've been eagerly anticipating since this time <u><i>last</i></u> year...  Peter Berg's <i>The Kingdom</i> was one of my Top Three Must-Sees of the First Half of 2007 (along with <i>Breach </i>and <i>300</i>) before it, um, got pushed back to the <i>Second</i> Half of 2007.  

It's difficult to overstate how excited I was to see this film.  I've been a fan of Berg's since <i>Very Bad Things</i>, really a mediocre film overall but one packing some truly shocking, even monstrous, "comedic" touches... a title that took some incredible risks (and, I'm convinced, put the final nail in the coffin of Christian Slater's career as a film lead)... There have been, I suppose, more jaw-dropping, notorious, and all-around "cooler" genre films, but I'm honestly not sure there's been a <u><i>braver</i></u> "dark comedy" -- <b><u>EVER</u></b> -- than <i>Very Bad Things</i>, except perhaps for <i>Your Friends & Neighbors</i>.  However, I digress...  

Point is, Berg's been a comer for a long, long time now, honing his writing and producing chops on top-flight television fare like <i>Chicago Hope </i>and the brilliant, tragically truncated <i>Wonderland</i>, as well as building up his street cred as an action film helmer (<i>The Rundown</i>) before breaking into the big time with the film adaptation of <i>Friday Night Lights </i>and, most triumphantly, its small-screen namesake.  <i>FNL </i>(and, I should also mention, <i>Heroes</i>) is perhaps the epitome of all that's <b><u>right</u></b> with post-Broadcast Era television, and may well be (again, with <i>Heroes</i>) the last, great scripted hourlong drama the original Big Three nets ever produce... The future belongs, certainly, to Showtime, FX and (less and less each season) HBO, but in a melancholy, apathetic sea of Dick Wolf and Jerry Bruckheimer productions and their inevitable clones, <i>Friday Night </i>is that rarest of gems.  Not for nothing do I call Peter Berg "the next David Chase," or "Ron Moore."

(Full disclosure, however:  I live in Texas; I'm a fairly insane football fan, even of high school ball -- our hometown 5A team is currently ranked 4th statewide -- and I know several of <i>FNL</i>'s "players" on a personal level.  I'm close to the production, so I'm hardly objective.)

But Peter Berg, <i>The Kingdom</i>'s director, only lays claim to a fraction of the dozens of very, very <i><u>good</u></i> things [heh] that <i>The Kingdom</i> has going for it.  The writer, Matthew Michael Carnahan, is also responsible for the forthcoming <i>Lions for Lambs</i>, which along with <i>Grace is Gone </i>heralds, perhaps, a real maturation of Hollywood's perspective on our most recent (and continuing) war.  (Aside:  It's pretty much conventional wisdom, nowadays, that history keeps speeding up, and that cultural change / "evolution" that once took centuries now occurs in about a half-hour.  But I'm still fairly astonished at how quickly, how completely, American filmmakers' perspectives on the Iraq War have reached this present, heartbreaking, contemplative point.  A film like <i>In the Valley of Elah</i>, for example -- were it to have been a product of the Viet Nam era --  could likely not have been made until the late 1980s, around the time that <i>Platoon</i> or <i>Casualties of War</i> or <i>Gardens of Stone</i> were released.  My point is, we sure do grow up fast in this day and age.  The bloom comes off the rose, if you'll pardon the expression, far quicker in the 21st Century than ever it did in the now-quaint 20th.)

I've thought Jamie Foxx was a star ever since he asked Uma Thurman to stick her pinky up a turtle's butt in <i>The Truth About Cats & Dogs</i>; <i>The Players Club </i>and <i>Any Given Sunday </i>(I mean, the guy held his own, onscreen, against <i><u>Pacino</u></i>.  <b><i><u>Pacino</u></i></b>, for Heaven's sake!) merely confirmed my suspicions, which have been borne out, I think, in <i>Collateral</i>, <i>Jarhead </i>and <i>Dreamgirls </i>(not to mention, of course, <i>Ray</i>).  Foxx is (and I'm sure I'm not the first to put it this way) his generation's Denzel Washington, at least so far... and let's hope Jamie manages to avoid the mid-career stagnation Denzel's been plagued by recently (the <i>Glory</i> star really hasn't had a decent role since 2001's revelatory <i>Training Day</i>).  Like the rest of the world, I fell in love with Jennifer Garner from the pilot episode of <i>Alias</i> on, and I've stuck with her Sally Field-meets-Linda Hamilton, girl-next-door-cum-tomboy spunkiness through a fairly disastrous early film résumé (<i>Daredevil</i>; <i>Catch and Release</i>; and, God help me, <i>Elektra</i>... And, while we're on the subject, <b>CAN SOMEBODY IN HOLLYWOOD PLEASE JUST GET IT THROUGH THEIR SKULLS THAT CHICK SUPERHERO MOVIES FRIGGIN' <i><u>BLOW</u></i> ?!?!?</b>  I mean, come on:  <i>Elektra</i>; <i>Catwoman</i>; not to mention, holy total steaming piles of dog$h!t, Batman, <i>My Super Ex-Girlfriend</i>.  And don't even get me started on Halle Berry's "portrayal" of Storm in the two <i>X-Men</i> films, plus that abortion of a trilogy-capper; the fact that 20th Century Fox passed on Angela Bassett as "too old," at 41 no less, to play Ororo Munroe is one of several reasons I have very nearly come to loathe that studio of late, <i>The Day After Tomorrow</i> being another big one.  However, I digress.  Point is, I swear to God, if I ever see Kate Beckinsdale, or Jessica Alba, or Eva Mendes, in <i>Wonder Woman</i>, I will absolutely track Joel Silver down and use strong language on him, or throw myself under the wheels of his BMW to degrade its paint job, or do a deuce on his shoes, or something.  Though I actually have to wonder why anyone would want Eva Mendes in <b><i><u>ANY</u></i></b> film...  However, perhaps, again, I digress just a smidge).

And Chris Cooper elevates every single film he's in, not dominating the frame or stealing scenes, but delivering the goods with such quiet, intense, self-assured <i>gravitas</i> that he makes everyone he shares the screen with that much more credible.  What a master craftsman; he's his generation's Paul Newman, folks, no matter that he's got a map of the world on his face.  <i>Lonesome Dove</i>; <i>City of Hope</i>; <i>A Time to Kill</i>; <i>October Sky</i>; <i>American Beauty</i>; <i>Seabiscuit</i>; <i>Capote</i>; <i>Syriana</i>; <i>Breach</i> (which ought to net him another Oscar nom).  My God, <i>Lone Star</i>.  He even managed to bring dignity to HBO's exploitative, R-rated AfterSchool Special, <i>Breast Men</i>, which is a bit like pouring Dom Perignon in a Dixie cup, or, actually, down the toilet.  

So, anyway:  Here's the thing about <i>The Kingdom</i>.  You've seen it all before, and yet, you haven't.  It's a police procedural; it's a war film.  It's a fictionalized version of certain real-life events, and yet, you walk out of the theater with the discomfiting sense that you're just been brought face-to-face with the very definition of "brutal truth."  It's a bold, in-your-face commentary on the nature of this, most exasperatingly undefinable "long war"; it resolutely fails to come down, politically, on one side or the other.  It's jarringly intimate; it's morbidly clinical.  <i>The Kingdom</i>, seen as a whole, shatters many commonly shared, very specifically, American perspectives, particularly about our rivals in the Middle East, and it does it without being preachy or overbearing.  It is, in a word, astonishing.  And it has the most breathtaking, gut-wrenching, blood-chilling final few moments I've seen in a film since the brilliant, out-of-nowhere last scene of Roger Donaldson's mesmerizing <i>No Way Out</i>.

There are elements of this movie that are so familiar.  <i>Syriana</i>; <i>Patriot Games</i>; <i>The Siege</i>; <i>Black Hawk Down</i>.  A fan of modern films could be forgiven for spending the entire 110-minute runtime cataloguing all its influences and predecessors.  Take my advice, don't, at least not on a first viewing.  

The film is bookended in an exceedingly interesting fashion: <i> The Kingdom </i>opens -- perhaps necessarily, given its undeniably American perspective and audience -- with, of all things, a history lesson, briefly summarizing the entire story of U.S. involvement with the Kingdom of Saud (Saudi Arabia), and therefore why we should give a damn.  Yet, the film's opening montage will not -- cannot -- become genuinely relevant until the very end of the film; all the myriad dates and facts are important only in hindsight.  <i>The Kingdom</i>'s first few minutes are, to borrow a specific image from the film, a shorthand version of <i><u>The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Kingdom</u></i>; its final few moments illustrate just how applicable these dusty intangibles really <i><b><u>are</u></b></i> to our current struggle, and how very much they are impacting our lives now, and will for the foreseeable future.

You've probably gleaned this much from the trailers, which have been circulating at least since last winter:  A truly barbaric terrorist attack on a Western housing compound in Saudi Arabia draws an elite FBI investigative team into the region, where, somewhat inevitably, they become even more appealing targets to those trying to bring about an end to American involvement in the Kingdom.  The team butts heads almost instantly with less-than-completely-helpful local law enforcement and military personnel, a strained-to-the-breaking-point relationship that is, itself, a paradigm of the far deeper chasms forcing these two nearly diametrically opposed cultures into constant conflict with one another.  What on earth would bring such massively distant worlds into a hugely dysfunctional relationship with each other?  The oil, of course, lubricant of both the industrialized world's economy and the Kingdom's own internal political machine.  Yet, though it may seem that we come from different planets, there is common ground to be had; justice, at least, and love of family survive even a century-long immersion in this blackest of universal solvents.  People with nothing in common, both horrified by the scale of the conflict, come together in the name of something greater than themselves.  Trust, and interdependence, result, and the hope of at least a temporary, personal solution to one of history's most enduring cultural crucibles.

And yet -- you walk away from the film with the inescapable realization that the terrible momentum, the awful legacy of insult, conflict, retribution, revenge, cannot be solved so easily.  As in any war, individuals may see reason, but nations -- far less, civilizations -- are far, far harder to mollify.  The last few frames of <i>The Kingdom </i>may be the most haunting of any film I've ever seen.

This is a film that, perhaps, works on two totally unrelated levels:  It is, to be sure, an enormously capable, relatively straightforward action/suspense film, but it's also a transcendent study of our times, much like <i>Traffic </i>was, or, more obviously, recent Best Picture <i>Crash</i>.  It may appeal equally to patriots and pacifists, to Americans and Europeans, to Red States and Blue States.  On the other hand, it might just piss off everybody.  I just can't tell.  

There are no truly outstanding performances; it's a real ensemble film in that sense, no one steals the show.  Everyone, including relative bit players like Jeremy Piven, Richard Jenkins and <i>FNL</i>'s Kyle Chandler and Minka Kelly, is exactly what their roles require them to be, no more, no less...  In other words, the casting is <b>perfect</b>.  (And there ought to be an Academy Award for Best Casting, in my opinion.)  The set pieces are flawless; the cinematography is outstanding; the direction is phenomenal.  The action sequences are some of the best I've ever seen, right up there with <i>Full Metal Jacket</i>, the <i>Bourne </i>films, <i>The Thin Red Line</i>, <i>Ronin </i>and <i>Casino Royale</i>.  <i>The Kingdom </i>should go up for several technical awards, including Editing, Sound Editing, Sound Effects and, perhaps, Best Director.  (And there <b><u><i>still</i></u></b> ought to be a category recognizing outstanding casting.)

[Sigh]  It's almost impossible to do this film justice, so I'll just say it straight out:  Go see <i>The Kingdom</i>, and decide for yourself.  I can give no higher praise to a film than to say:  It made me think, and it stayed with me.  It's been three days, and I haven't been able to put <i>The Kingdom</i> out of my mind yet... and I very much doubt I will, for quite a long time to come.  


I remain, as always...

Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:15:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Yeah, I saw it.

I liked the movie but, I'll be honest, the more I think about it, the more aggravating it actually was. I'm not sure what to think of the movie's politics but at times it reduces to a very simple tenet: the world is a better place if we just kill 'em all. That comes from both sides of what is presented as a maybe regretted symbiotic alliance. I'm sure Metallica would be proud. I'm being simplistic so I'll just stop. This is a movie that wants to be called 'Rambo 5: Syriana.' I guess that's the best way I can describe it. 'The Kingdom' wants to say profound things about the Western and Middle Eastern political and cultural relationship but when the script starts to get unsure of itself and the motivations of the conflicting organizations, it resorts to lightening things up with a few explosions. It just kind of hopes you won't notice that there aren't any substantive answers.

]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:14:31]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ A_Roode]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm just going to reply to my friend <b>A-Roode </b>real fast (yes, really!):  I see what you mean, but I beg to differ.  I think that the <i><b>non</b></i>-bookend part of the film, the "white meat," if you will, <i><b><u>IS</u></b></i> a very obviously American perspective, told very conventionally and in that heightened, stylized manner that is so common to American action films, right down to the rah-rah, rally-'round-the-flag elements you mentioned; but, again, I think those final few moments flip the whole thing on its ear.  [Swipe <b><u>only</u></b> if you've seen the film:]  <font color='white'>By transposing the American "victory," with its predictable emotionalism, pride and confidence, with the <b>EXACT <u>SAME</u> SENTIMENT</b> on the <b><u><i>OTHER</i></u> </b>side, I think <i>The Kingdom </i>illustrates just how <b>similiar <u><i>BOTH</i></u> </b>sides are, in terms of their capriciousness, persistence, bloodlust and towering arrogance; we are fighting an enemy so very like ourselves, and the sense of purpose, of "mission accomplished" the team felt upon its return to the U.S., is <b><u>EXACTLY</u> <u>THE</u> <u>SAME</u> </b>as the terrorists' own determination, zeal and terrible, terrible fury.  "<i>We have met the Enemy, and he is us.</i>"  We look at our opponents and see monsters.  The truth is, on some level at least, we're looking in a mirror.</font>

At least, that's what <u><i><b>I</b></i></u> got out of it.


I remain, as always...

Nico.
]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 00:13:35]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Thanks for the review Nico and A_Roode, but I gotta ask, are there any spaceship battles?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:30:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Oops, double post.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:19:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shryke42]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Sigh.  <b>tuan</b> and his space battles...

(Note: for full effect, repeat the above line in the same inflection of voice as Chief Wiggum in that ep where Homer became a food critic.  "(Sigh)  Lou and his frittatas..."

Mmm... frittatas... (*smack*)

Great review, Nico, I can't wait to see this film.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 07:19:31]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shryke42]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Nico, my man, your review made me want to see The Kingdom
Roode, my man, your review made me not!

I'm eager to swipe Nico's whitened post, but I must resist. 

Guess I'll leave it to the reviews. 

Nico, what films do you compare The Kingdom to (yes, I'm aware of the fact that I'm reducing your review to "if you like BLAH, you'll love YADA", something Amazon does and hardly ever gets right, but hey, I've no attention span. Now if you just tell me who you are, we can all move on)]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 08:35:18]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ numbersix_99]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Don't let me talk you out of it number_six -- I DID actually enjoy the movie and have in fact been recommending it to friends. If nothing else, there is a kick a$$ gun fight that is <b><i> intense </b></i> to say the least. 'The Kingdom' wins its opening weekend, scores 8-10 Top 5 and will have iMDb between 6.8-7.4 Couldn't tell you what the box office finishes at but I'd be suprised if it is less than $80 million. It isn't a 'dumb' movie and it isn't pure popcorn either. The final half hour is great stuff (the ending lines that our friendly neighborhood rat references will either chill you as they resonate or annoy you with puerile cynicism). I just don't think anyone should be hoping to sharpen their understanding of the Middle East with 'The Kingdom' as their textbook.

And anyway, no movie studio is stupid enough to sneak peek a movie two weeks ahead of time if the thing is a stinker. They've got the goods. I'm jaded about the politics but stoked about the action.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:43:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ A_Roode]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Sheesh! Thanks for the review Mr. Nicodemus. I was going to write it off from the TV spots because it seemed like the modern day Green Berets. Apparently, it seems as I was wrong about that! I'll definitely give it a look see.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 16:04:07]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ JackO]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b><u>All</u></b>:  Thanks, again, and you're welcome!  I only wish I hadn't written the second half of my <i>Kingdom </i>review at 1:00 a.m.  And, er, that I had an editor.  (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink!)

<b>Number Six</b>:  First off, let me say that <b>A_Roode </b>has a point, I've been thinking about it quite a bit today.  Although I would certainly <i><u>not</u></i> compare <i>The Kingdom </i>to the sort of simplistic, parochial, overbearing Michael Bay / Chevy Truck commercial pro-Americanism of, say, <i>Armageddon</i>, or <i>Navy Seals</i>, or even (for those reading between the lines) <i>Starship Troopers</i>, the film is most definitely presented from the American perspective, and that point of view only really shifts in the closing "bookend" I mentioned.  So, this is not what you might honestly call an "<i><u>objective</u></i>" film... but, truthfully, war films rarely are (and crime films, which <i>The Kingdom</i> also is, even less); even those that aspire to equanimity almost <i>always</i> have a specific moral or ideological axe to grind.  In that sense I would compare <i>The Kingdom </i>to, for instance, <i>United 93</i>, which depicted with unflinching, brutal honesty the loathsomeness of events without exactly condemning either "side" -- the Muslim terrorists, or their (mainly) American victims.

The film I think <i>The Kingdom</i>, narratively speaking, most <u><b>closely</b></u> resembles is Ed Zwick's courageous, prescient <i>The Siege</i>; though, from a technical standpoint, the other films I mentioned (<i>Patriot Games</i>, <i>Syriana </i>and, perhaps most accurately, <i>Black Hawk Down</i>) have clearly had their influence, too.  But I think <i>The Siege</i> is by far the most exact comparison.

And I also agree with <b>A_Roode </b>on another point:  <b>DO <u>NOT</u> </b>consider <i>The Kingdom </i>to be a complete, infallible, exacting <i><u>Cliffs Notes</u> </i>to our involvement in Saudi Arabia.  (Perhaps I oversold the film in this regard.)  I would consider it, however, a good place to begin one's education about the history of the Kingdom, and <i><b><u>why</u> <u>it</u> <u>matters</u></b></i>.  Moreover, if you want to know what the U.S. is up against in its "war on terror," or "war <i><u>of</u></i> terror" (with acknowledgements to Borat), or "long war," or whatever you might want to term it, I think this film's concluding minutes deliver a pretty accurate answer.

(Full disclosure, again:  Many of you know I served in the U.S. Navy; fewer, perhaps, are aware that I served in the Persian Gulf War.  I've been to that part of the world, during a not entirely dissimilar time, and I found the mannerisms, the attitude, the hard-to-articulate <i>details </i>of the clash of cultures between West and Near East depicted in <i>The Kingdom </i>to be 100% accurate.  If you want to know what it <u><i>can</i></u> be like "over there," you're far better off watching <i>The Kingdom</i>, in my opinion, than, say, <i>Jarhead</i>...  Berg & co. did their homework.)

Btw, <b>A_Roode</b>, I'd <i><u><b>LOVE</b></u></i> to discuss <i><u><b>your</b></u></i> reaction to those closing few minutes in greater detail; perhaps you wouldn't mind inaugurating a thread marked, "<b>SPOILERS!</b>"...?  Just to make sure no one has their <u><i>own</i></u> viewing experience soured, or influenced, unnecessarily...

Good stuff.

<b>Jack0</b>:  ...We-ellllll... again, refer to my comments to <b>A_Roode </b>above, there.  <b><i><u>I</u></i> </b>would characterize / interpret <i>The Kingdom</i>'s spectacular firefights as being more of a clinical dissection of urban combat conditions, than Tony Scott-esque machismo; however, there's at least <i><b>ONE</b></i> scene / action that's <i><b><u>totally</u> </b></i>over-the-top, and which <b><i>did</i></b> (in my theater, anyway) provoke a spontaneous eruption of "Yeah, baby, <b><i><u>yeah</u></i></b>!"s.  So, while I think <i>Green Berets </i>is <u>something</u> of a stretch, I would put its combat scenes up there, in terms of their furious insanity, with, say, <i>The Patriot</i>'s.  Different war, similiar frenzies.

One thing I'd like to point out about combat is this:  In the moment of actual action, you'd be awfully hard-pressed to find a soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine (or, for that matter, Coastie) who is thinking of ideology, or politics, or even honor, while the air around them is being pierced with reports and the screams of the maimed and dying.  When you're in a foxhole, it's not about policy, it's about survival -- yours, and the person next to you's.  That's it.  Hollywood tends to turn the soldiers involved in combat actions into either simplistic, recruiting-poster cardboard cut-outs, or one-dimensional, slavering fanatics; it tends to view combat actions as either glorious revelations about the so-called "human spirit," or terrible indictments of human criminality.  It's all wrong.  There are a million reasons why soldiers -- on either side, in <u><i><b>ANY</b></i></u> war -- sign up, from the need to acquire maturity to the desire to earn respect; from love of country, to hate of their hometown; from a desire to serve, to a desire to smash; from decent paychecks to, if you'll pardon the crude expression, decent p_______.  But, under fire, it's all about living to draw another breath, to see another sunrise, to kiss your spouse and children; and to make sure your buddy gets to do the same.  Rhetoric and reason both fly out the window the instant the shit hits the fan; at that point, all that matters is getting through, getting out, and getting home.  Neither George W. Bush nor Saddam Hussein mattered one bit to soldiers under fire; bullets chew up demagoguery far more effectively, even, than flesh.  (Precious little in life promotes focus and clarity faster than a muzzle flash and an echoing report, folks.)  No one who's been through combat would ever call themselves a "hero," <u><i><b>or</b></i></u> a "monster"; all they'll ever be, all they ever wanted to be, are... survivors.  Watch <i>Band of Brothers</i>, or, if you really feel the need to invest Hell with <i><b>some</b></i> kind of meaning or rationality, <i>The Thin Red Line</i>.  Everything else is a cartoon, to one extent or another, and <i>The Kingdom </i>is no exception, though it's far, far, far from the most ridiculous imitation / simplification of war I've seen.

However... I digress.

<b>tuan</b>:  [Snort]  You're too much, dude.  "<i>[A]re there any spaceship battles?</i>" made me laugh out loud...  Even <u><i><b>before</b></i></u> I envisioned hearing it in a Chief Wiggum voice.  (Funniest <i>Simpsons </i>quote, <b><u>ever</u></b>:  "<i>I think I bent my Wookie!</i>"  --Ralph Wiggum.)  [Sigh]  Yes, <b>tuan</b>, yes, there are.  

Have I mentioned yet, how very, very <i><u>good</u></i> it is to be "back"?


I remain, as always...

Nico.


<i>ETA:  P.S.  There's <u>another</u> thing, on further reflection, I need to agree with <b>A_Roode </b>about: </i> The Kingdom <b><u>doesn't</u></b> <i>offer any answers.  Far from it, it presents, ultimately, a snapshot of how one side deals with this cultural conflict...  [swipe only if you <u><b>want</b></u> to be spoiled] <font color='white'> ...and, at the very end, how the <u><b>other</b></u> side deals with same...  which turns out to be, <b><u>identically</u></b>.</font></i>  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:24:24]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I really don't think its gonna be that great.  Personally I would rather see the game plan.  Mainly because war movies are definately not my cup of tea.  or coffee. or anything else for that matter.  I find them to be somewhat boring and sorely overrated.  They're all the same to me no matter how different everyone else says they are.  If my theater gets it.  I'll watch it.  If not.  I think I can wait.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:22:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cRAzY]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ "I really don't think [<i>The Kingdom </i>is] gonna be that great. Personally I would rather see <i>[T]he [G]ame [P]lan</i>."

Dude.  You know, <b>cRAzY</b>, I love your stuff, and I <u><i>am</i></u> respectful of your opinion / taste / perspective / preferences, I really am.  I'm not trying to be a dick or anything -- after all, <u><b><i>I'll</i></b></u> defend <i>Starship Troopers </i>to the death (<i>yours</i>, of course, not mine, are you kiddin' me?  It's just a stupid friggin' movie about space bugs!).  But, I have to tell you, man, in all sincerity...  I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

No, seriously, I hope you enjoy <i>The Game Plan</i>, or <i>Resident Evil: Extinction</i>, or<i> Eastern Promises</i>, or whatever you might see this weekend, and I'll quit breaking your balls.  Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to pound down a quart or so of Scope.  [Grin]

(I mean, it can't be worse than <i>Ghost Rider</i>.  Right?)




(Right?)









<span style="font-size: 9px; line-height: normal">(...right...?)</span>


I remain, as always...


Nico.  <span style="font-size: 7px; line-height: normal">(...<b><i><u>right</u>?!?!?</i></b>)</span>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:12:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ As you can tell by my post profile, I don't post a whole lot on the public boards.  HOwever, when I saw a thread about this subject I had to jump in.

I have been looking forward to this film ever since I heard it got a standing ovation at the focus group sneak peeks back in July (I think it was July).  I am just happy that Hollywood realizes that with a little bit of effort they can still make great Action/Suspense movies with a brain.  

It is films like these that make us healthier as a nation.  To have a little food for thought with your popcorn has always been a mantra at the Arthouse and European cinema.  I am happy to see it is finally starting to make some strides in this country b/c honestly you get your message to much bigger audience when you make a genre film with some intelectual elements rather than the other way around.

I am extremely excited to see The Kingdom.  I hope it is great and can stand up and shout its discussion from the rooftops, even if it is, "I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore."  Here's hoping that this film transcends its genre and gets everyone talking about the geo-political issues that are only passed around inside the beltway and the academic elite.  I lift my glass to the hope that is The Kingdom and the type of change it can cause for all mankind.  hahaha.

I got you going huh.  I just hope the movie is solid, everyone comes out to see it and it becomes that coffee table book for all of America.  As always I remain... jk Nico I won't take your line...

Peace 

]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:28:22]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ helfy91782]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>helfy</b>:  Glad you dropped by today!  You're always welcome, partner.  We can always use a <i>helfy </i>perspective 'round here.  [Ducking.  Again.  Man, I gotta stop doing that.]


"<i>I am just happy that Hollywood realizes that with a little bit of effort they can still make great Action/Suspense movies with a brain... [F]ilms like these that make us healthier as a nation. ...[Y]ou get your message to much bigger audience when you make a genre film with some intelectual elements rather than the other way around...  Here's hoping that this film transcends its genre and gets everyone talking about the geo-political issues...</i>"  Wow, that's a mouthful, all right, and I couldn't agree with you more.  Nicely done.  (Now, look, however, I personally feel <i>The Kingdom </i>is much more <i>The Bourne Ultimatum </i>than <i>Syriana</i>...  But that ain't exactly <u><i>bad</i></u>, you know.) 

"<i>I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore.</i>" Well, Hell, I'll lift <u><i><b>my</b></i></u> glass (er, mug) to anyone who can spontaneously recite <i>Network</i>.  But, then again, I'm only a poor lackey of the imperialist ruling circles.  [Grin]

"<i>I got you going huh.</i>"  Always; not only that, but you create feelings in others that they themselves blah, blah blah blah, blah blah, blah, blah. 

"<i>As always I remain... jk Nico I won't take your line...</i>"  Aw, go 'head.  I get a nickel every time you do.  [Grin]  Besides, imitation is the sincerest form of plagiarism, or something.


"<i>Peace.</i>"  Love.  Crabs.  Out.   


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:52:43]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ What can I say I love action movies.  Well almost any kind of movies now that I think about it.  Besides war movies of course.
In light of this I would now like to add that Shoot em Up was like the coolest frickin movie I've ever seen.  So what if the storyline was conceived in a bathroom stall in the back of wal mart while somebody is takin care of biz.  Meanwhile this movie had some of the best action scenes I have ever seen.  I could be wrong but I don't think I've ever seen a movie where the main dude shoots a room full of swat "while" having el inter-o course-o.  I know most hated crank.  I liked it.  I tend to like adreniline fueled action movies and shoot em up makes crank look like the frickin spongebob movie.  Which I never saw because its the most ridiculous show besides yu gi oh I have never watched.  Anyways.  I'm sure I'm alone here other than hardcore owen fans.  But this movie in my opinion was effing amazing.  I recomend anybody who doesn't mind a lame storyline to go see this movie right now.  Immediately.  Go.  Why are you still reading.  Go watch it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:49:51]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cRAzY]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I am not one for shooting people down but what the hell was that Crazy?  We were talking about The Kingdom and then you insert you diatribe about action films like Shootem up and Crank.  That was kind of ADD dont you think?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:40:23]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ helfy91782]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Good point, <b>helfy</b>, but, let's face it:  It was the "<i>el inter-o course-o</i>" that made that <b>art</b>.


I remain, as always...


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:42:18]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Sorry.  Kingdom doesn't really interest me.  And shoot em up was like the coolest movie I've seen this year.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:51:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ cRAzY]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ cRazy, I'm with you. Not only does The Kingdom NOT interest me, it almost makes me want to 100% give up on movies in general. It looks terrible. I understand he's your producer, Peter Berg, but Michael Mann's style barely works for him. Come up with an original style of your own.  Friday Night Lights was a beauitiful film, why would you completely change your style? Unfortunately, i'm pretty much alone in thinking this will be a terrible movie and it looks like it's going to not only kill at the box office but probably come awards season too, and that just makes me angry. I can deal with the fact that there are a bunch of movies coming out about Iraq, but the only one worth seeing is In The Valley of Elah. Rendition will suck.
And, The Kingdom will suck. sorry.
This season also has a lot of westerns coming out, at least they all look like amazing masterpieces of filmmaking.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 27 Sep 2007 15:40:35]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ StnMan5]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I watched the first 4 minutes (or more accurately, the opening credits) online today, and it was different than expected, but actually in a way that made me want to see it more.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:09:53]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ dranscht]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Australia's version of <b>Ebert and Roeper</b> reviewed The Kingdom this week. Seems they weren't too impressed by it although the message in it is quite powerful.

<a href='http://www.abc.net.au/atthemovies/txt/s2024566.htm' target='_new' rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/atthemovies/txt/s2024566.htm</a>

Here are some choice quotes:
<b>
"The Kingdom ends up being neither fish nor fowl. It’s not such a tense action thriller and even though it makes an attempt to illuminate the complex politics of the country it really shies away from anything truly challenging."</b>

<b>"Yeah, I think there's something rotten in this kingdom. I think there's an attitude which really got up my nose a bit."
</b>
<b>"And, you know, ultimately it does have a really powerful message in its ending."</b>

To sum it up: <b>"Look, the beginning and the ending are the best things in the film but what's in between is horrible."</b>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:12:32]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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			<item>
				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>StnMan5</b>:  Hmmm, your (and <b>cRAzY</b>'s) comments make me wonder:  Is it possible <b>Peter Berg </b>decided to take <i><u><b>too</b></u> <u>much</u> </i>of a middle-of-the-road approach with <i>The Kingdom</i>?   It stands almost <i>exactly </i>at the crossroads between police procedural and war film, action movie and quasi-sociopolitical documentary (okay, fine, it leans more toward "action" than modern history, but it's still taking from both genres).  It's told from an almost exclusively American point-of-view, yes, but <i>The Kingdom </i>still manages to relate (very, very effectively I think -- unnervingly so, actually) to the <u><i>other</i></u> side of this conflict...  Would it have served the film (and/or its audience) better to more unambiguously come down on one "side" or another?  I'm not so sure... but I think this is a terribly important, very very interesting conversation -- not to mention, <i>relevant</i>, particularly with the next Presidential election what seems like merely weeks away -- and I'd love to continue it, most especially with naysayers or skeptics, once the film opens and they get a chance to see the film for themselves...  I hope I get that chance.  Something tells me that how American audiences respond to this film will be a window into, perhaps a paradigm of, how they feel about The Long War, generally...  Plus, I just get off on stimulating and passionate intellectual discourse, or, failing that, pure and unadulterated argument.  

And, <b>StnMan5</b>, I do <u><b>hope</b></u> you're exaggerating when you employ rhetoric like:  

<blockquote><i>The Kingdom</i>... almost makes me want to 100% give up on movies in general.&nbsp;
		</blockquote>
...I mean, dude, <u><b><i>really</i></b></u>?  <i><b>Seriously</b></i>?  I can't imagine what would make you <u><i><b>so</b></i></u> despise a film, sight unseen...  I mean, unless it was <i>Dude, Where's My Car?</i>, <i>Caddyshack II </i>or <i>Fair Game</i>, or <i>American Psycho II: All American Girl </i>or something...  But I respect your opinion (even if I can't quite manage to comprehend it)...



<blockquote>It looks terrible... <b>Michael Mann</b>'s style barely works for [<b>Peter Berg</b>].  Come up with an original style of your own. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Hmm, there's some truth to that, no question; I was reminded quite a bit of <i>Heat</i>, and also (bizarrely enough) <i>The Matrix Reloaded</i>.  It's a fair point...  But, then, how many cinematographers have attempted to duplicate frequent <b>Spielberg </b>collaborator <b>Janusz Kaminski</b>'s style (and lens choices, and exposure decisions), from <i>Saving Private Ryan</i>?  Or, the trademark "long hallway" zooms first perfected by lenser <b>Matthew F. Leonetti</b> in Poltergeist (another Spielberg production), and then aped by everyone from <b>Oliver Stone</b>, to <b>Joel Schumacher</b>, to Danny Boyle?  ...Yet, we rarely hear dissatisfaction expressed with these <i>homages</i>, even though -- whether they're well-executed, or badly done -- they frankly smack more of plagiarism than tribute...  My point is, Berg's a talented filmmaker, yes, but he's still very much a novice, learning his craft.  It's natural -- almost inevitable -- that, until (and unless) he develops his own signature "style," he'll keep honing his skills by putting what he's already seen into practice.  After all, we can't <u><b>all</b></u> be Fellini, Chaplin, Welles, Truffaut,  DeMille, Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Kubrick, Coppola, Lucas, Syder, Malick, Altman, Sayles, Spielberg, or the Coen or Wachowski Bros. -- some of us have to settle for being Richard Attenborough, Robert Wise, Ron Howard, John McTiernan, Martin Scorcese, Alan J. Pakula, Tim Robbins, Cameron Crowe, Brian De Palma, Barry Levinson, Jonathan Demme, Robert Zemeckis, John Landis, Joe Dante, Renny Harlin, Frank Oz, Richard Donner, Tony Scott, Peter Jackson (man, am I gonna catch Hell for <u><i>that</i></u>), Tim Burton (<u><i><b>and</b></i></u> that), Kevin Smith (and, OMG, <u><i><b>THAT</b></i></u>) or Clint Eastwood:  talented, but rarely <u><i><b>original</b></i></u>, auteurs who, like a diligent but uninspired architect, have mastered the <u><i>mechanics</i></u> of filmmaking but have nothing <i><u><b>truly</b></u></i> <u><b>new</b></u> or <u><b>revolutionary</b></u> to contribute to the medium.  In other words, there are far, far more <b>Peter Keatings </b>than <b>Howard Roarks</b>, in this as in any other endeavour, which should come, really, as no surprise to anyone who's been on the planet more than fifteen years or so.  (Then again, there are far, far too many <b>Ellsworth Toohey</b>s, too (heh)... and if, by some unhappy chance, you slept through your lower-level college literature or junior-year high school English class, or are culturally retarded, and therefore <u><i><b>don't</b></i></u> know what the heck I'm talking about, a pox upon you, and goest thence and pick up a dogeared copy of <u><i>The Fountainhead</i></u> from your local Half Price Books.  <u><b><i>Now</i></b></u>.  

...However, I digress.



<blockquote><i>Friday Night Lights </i>was a beauitiful film, why would you completely change your style?&nbsp;
		</blockquote>
...I'm going to chalk it up to that learning curve I referenced in the last paragraph, until proven otherwise; up-and-coming Little League pitchers are constantly learning new ways to wrap their digits around the ball, after all.  Ninety-nine point nine percent of the time, they wind up spending a career just emulating what they've seen to one degree or another... but once in a generation or so, you get a <b>Bruce Sutter </b>(inventor of the split-fingered fastball).  

...Are you a fan of <i><u>FNL</u></i>, the television series, btw?

 
<blockquote>Unfortunately, i'm pretty much alone in thinking this will be a terrible movie and it looks like it's going to not only kill at the box office but probably come awards season too, and that just makes me angry. I can deal with the fact that there are a bunch of movies coming out about Iraq, but the only one worth seeing is <i>In The Valley of Elah</i>. <i>Rendition </i>will suck. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
I wouldn't be so sure about that (that you're "<i>alone</i>" in thinking that way).  There's a <u><i><b>lot</b></i></u> more push-back to <i>The Kingdom </i>than I had expected...  If this film doesn't hit <u><i><b>exactly</b></i></u> the right note with Middle America, it could well flame out under $50M, and end up widely reviled besides, killing or at least reducing its chances to succeed on DVD.  Regular Forum participants will note that I've been fond of comparing <i>The Kingdom </i>to Ed Zwick's ominously prescient <i>The Siege </i>-- a valid comparison, I think -- but we have to remember, <u><i>that</i></u> film was recieved well by neither critics nor the public (for, I think, some of the same reasons), and barely earned back half its budget (it ended up around $40M domestically).  It's taken Zwick, previously considered one of Hollywood's brightest comers, nearly a decade to get back into good graces with the studios.  I can't really imagine a circumstance where <i>The Kingdom </i>ends up significantly above $100M ($110M is about as high as I'd believe possible), and, as you say, <i>In the Valley of Elah </i>(as well as <i>Lions for Lambs </i>and <i>Grace Is Gone</i>, among a host of other timely films examining modern war) is far likelier to earn awards-season honors (Tommy Lee Jones's performance, especially).   


(Btw -- if it seems like I'm picking on you, I'm not.  You just made me think, is all, and <u><i><b>that</b></i></u>, to paraphrase Martha Stewart, is a very, <b><i>very</i></b> good thing.)



<blockquote><i>The Kingdom</i> will suck. sorry. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Beg to differ, at least until you've actually <u><i>seen</i></u> it, but it's not a big deal.  No apology needed, we're all friends here, or at least <u><i><b>very</b></i></u> dysfunctional relations.



<blockquote>This season also has a lot of westerns coming out, at least they all look like amazing masterpieces of filmmaking. &nbsp;
		</blockquote> 
Hey, no argument there.  Word.  
 
 
<b>dranscht</b>:  Good.  I do believe that was the point.  I'm glad they're available online, perhaps they'll whet the public's appetite.


   
<b>tuan</b>:   

<blockquote>Seems they weren't too impressed by it although the message in it is quite powerful. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
I'll settle for that.  There are plenty of films I didn't especially <u><i>like</i></u>, that made me think.  (<i>Natural Born Killers </i>being, perhaps, first among them.)  



<blockquote>"<i>The Kingdom ends up being neither fish nor fowl. It’s not such a tense action thriller and even though it makes an attempt to illuminate the complex politics of the country it really shies away from anything truly challenging.</i>" &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
[Nodding]  All in all, I think that's fair.



<blockquote>"<i>Look, the beginning and the ending are the best things in the film but what's in between is horrible.</i>" &nbsp;
		</blockquote> 
<b><u>Can't</u></b> agree there...  Remember, <i>2001: A Space Odyssey </i>changed genres midway through, too.  The "middle" of <i>The Kingdom </i>is part detective story, part action / war movie.  Both are very, very well done in my opinion.  But they might not be exactly what audiences are expecting... or, perhaps, what they're <u><i>wanting</i></u>.  There's the rub, again in my opinion.  We should begin to know how it's playing in twenty-four hours or thereabouts.


Can't wait for Mase's first "Weekend Update"!


I remain, as always...


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:03:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ It's rare that I get to see three movies in the theater in the space of one calendar week.  It's even rarer still that I get to see three <i>quality</i> films in that same week.

(I promise I won't stray to far off topic, and I'll try even harder not to spoil it for anyone who hasn't see them.)

Last Sunday, I saw <i>Eastern Promises</i>.  My God, what a great movie.  I think it's the best drama I've seen this year, and maybe the best organized crime movie I've seen <b><i><u>EVER</b></i></u> (and yes, that includes <i>The Godfather</i>, which was a classic in every way, but always disturbed me far more than it enthralled me).  I think, and hope, it gets a full rack o' Oscar noms, not the least of which should be for Best Picture, Best Director (David Cronenberg) and Best Actor (Viggo Mortensen, in his best performance <i>ever</i>, and that's saying something).  The only problem I had at all was that the very last two minutes seem to fast-forward to a point where something significant seemed to have been missed.  But then, I've heard that this may very well end up being Part One of a trilogy a la <i>The Godfather</i>, and if that ends up being the case, I'll be very pleased.

On Tuesday, I went with my friend Tom to see<i>3:10 to Yuma</i>.  Again, very very well done.  I didn't enjoy it as much as <i>Promises</i>, but I have found a whole new respect for Christian Bale as an actor.  The sense of pride (which was easily mistakable for stubbornness) and honor with which he comported himself made him a truly sympathetic hero.  The only thing I didn't like about this film was that I did not get Russell Crowe's character at all.  He spends half the film trying to convince (who?  Himself?  His men?  The viewing audience?) that he's this cold, badass killer, who wants to be free to roam and rob and pillage and whatnot, and the other half acting like he doesn't give a crap one way or the other.  Like Nico has told me in private, Russell Crowe is a cypher; there is a strange duality about the man, and the characters he portrays invariably posses this same duality, and his Ben Wade was no exception.  I suppose in the long run, it's not really necessary that I understand him, he's a complicated cat, an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a leather vest.  I just would have liked a little more insight into what made him tick, that's all.

And now, this Saturday, I'm going to see <i>The Kingdom</i>.  My appetite has been sufficiently whetted by Nico's very incisive review, and despite a lot of the negativity that has come forth in the interim, I'm still very looking forward to it.  I'll reserve my final judgment for then.  I normally share opinions with Nico, but I can assure you, I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade, and if <i>The Kingdom</i> turns out to be crap, then I'll say so.  

I do feel emboldened by Nico's claim that the film "does not come down on one side or the other".  Being notoriously apolitical, it's good to know that I won't have that to worry about.  Aberrant soapboxing bores me to tears.

I'll be back on this thread in two days.  Save me a chair.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:42:40]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shryke42]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Don't want to steal any of your thunder, my man, I just had to comment on...

<blockquote>an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a leather vest&nbsp;
		</blockquote>
<span style="font-size: 24px; line-height: normal"><b>[Applause]</b>  </span>

And the crowds go wild!  (Gee, it's like watching Thomas Hardy write, the definite pronoun, "<i>The</i>," all over again!)


I remain, as always...


Nico.


<i>ETA:  

<blockquote>Aberrant soapboxing bores me to tears. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
And... yet, you read... <b><u>ME</u></b>.  [Grin]</i>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:36:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p></p>

		<cite>Nicodemus wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>After all, we can't <u><b>all</b></u> be Fellini, Chaplin, Welles, Truffaut,  DeMille, Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Kubrick, Coppola, Lucas, Syder, Malick, Altman, Sayles, Spielberg, or the Coen or Wachowski Bros. -- some of us have to settle for being Richard Attenborough, Robert Wise, Ron Howard, John McTiernan, Martin Scorcese, Alan J. Pakula, Tim Robbins, Cameron Crowe, Brian De Palma, Barry Levinson, Jonathan Demme, Robert Zemeckis, John Landis, Joe Dante, Renny Harlin, Frank Oz, Richard Donner, Tony Scott, <b>Peter Jackson</b> (man, am I gonna catch Hell for <u><i>that</i></u>)&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

Yeah you will indeed. If that Lucas you refer to above is the Georgie Porgie Lucas that I think you're referring to, then I wish you a very painful ball-busting torture.

Lucas has a style? If it's a multitude of fantastical and oh-so-wonderful <b>transitions</b> that you're referring to as his great style then so be it. Other than that, I don't see Boy George having any style at all.

As for his originality, alright, I'll settle for that.

Maybe I'm being a little harsh on Georgie Worgie but I think my brain hurts when I see Lucas' name associated with the greats over a modern-day great like Heaven's architect <b>Sir Peter Jackson</b>.

<i>P.S.</i> Since you're a huge LOTR fan Nico, and so am I. Was wondering which was your favourite of the three? Mine is clearly <b>Fellowship </b>as I think overall, it's clearly the best film of the lot in terms of emotionality (if that's a word), well really, it's just one single adventure, it's a real adventure film if you really <i>get </i>what I'm saying, for a lack of a better word.

<b>Return of the King</b> had the bigger and better beasts, effects, and 'wow' moments, but the film has this quality to it that I can't quite find a word for, it's this quality that feels like the sum of it's parts doesn't quite gel together, or that it's not as great as the sum of it's parts.

As for <b>Two Towers</b>, it's a bit too much action and not enough emotionality and character for me. Although Pippin, or was it Merry's speech in that, that was really great and the addition of Gollum and the Helm's Deep battle. And trees wreaking havoc, f**k yeah! But the film just isn't as great as Fellowship in my opinion. There really is something about Fellowship, it's so magical, it's the film that took me to Middle Earth.

I mean Fellowship was inducted into the <b>AFI Top 100</b> list at no. 50 for a reason, so I guess I'm not the only one who has this opinion.

Ok, enough rambling, what what's your favourite Nico?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:14:43]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I was exaggerating when I said I would give up on movies altogether...It just frustrates me sometimes to see movies come out and not only come out but oft times succeed that seem to not have the right intent or meaning or passion behind them. I know we have differing opinions on this particular movie, but as a fellow movie fanatic(to put it lightly) you must understand what I mean...It just doesn't seem genuine. It seems too forced to me, that's all.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 28 Sep 2007 00:58:21]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ StnMan5]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>tuan</b>:


<blockquote>If that <b>Lucas </b>you refer to above is the Georgie Porgie Lucas that I think you're referring to...&nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Indeed...



<blockquote>...then I wish you a very painful ball-busting torture.&nbsp;
		</blockquote> 
Thanks, man, but I'm already married, and I'm a lifelong Red Sox fan, besides.  I've reached my quota, dude; time to throw me back.  [Grin]



<blockquote>Lucas has a style? &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Erm, the man has a point, there.



<blockquote>If it's a multitude of fantastical and oh-so-wonderful transitions that you're referring to as his great style then so be it. Other than that, I don't see Boy George having any style at all. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Again... the man has a point.


<blockquote>As for his originality, alright, I'll settle for that. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Yeah, we'll go with that.  [Grin]  I consider Lucas "revolutionary" in the same way I consider <b>Cameron</b>, and to some extent even the <b>Wachowskis</b>, and <b>Spielberg</b>, in some respects (though he has far, far <u><i>more</i></u> going for him, obviously, than merely this), "revolutionary" -- they either [A] brought new tools to the filmmaker's hand, or [2] improved them, in some cases greatly.  


<blockquote>Maybe I'm being a little harsh on Georgie Worgie but I think my brain hurts when I see Lucas' name associated with the greats over a modern-day great like Heaven's architect Sir Peter Jackson. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
...See, I consider Jackson to be a <u><i>MORE</i></u> talented director (not to mention, writer), but not <u><i>quite</i></u> so impactful an inventor, if you catch my drift.  (WETA is awesome, but, let's face it, <b>tuan</b>, it ain't ILM.  At least, not yet...)  Put it another way:  If Peter could direct, and George would produce and do technical consulting, they'd make <b><i><u>a</u></i></b> wonderfully talented filmmaker.


<blockquote>P.S. Since you're a huge <i>LOTR </i>fan Nico, and so am I. Was wondering which was your favourite of the three? Mine is clearly <i>Fellowship </i>as I think overall, it's clearly the best film of the lot in terms of emotionality (if that's a word), well really, it's just one single adventure, it's a real adventure film if you really get what I'm saying, for a lack of a better word. 

<i>Return of the King </i>had the bigger and better beasts, effects, and 'wow' moments, but the film has this quality to it that I can't quite find a word for, it's this quality that feels like the sum of it's parts doesn't quite gel together, or that it's not as great as the sum of it's parts. 

As for <i>Two Towers</i>, it's a bit too much action and not enough emotionality and character for me. Although Pippin, or was it Merry's speech in that, that was really great and the addition of Gollum and the Helm's Deep battle. And trees wreaking havoc, f**k yeah! But the film just isn't as great as Fellowship in my opinion. There really is something about <i>Fellowship</i>, it's so magical, it's the film that took me to Middle Earth. 

I mean <i>Fellowship </i>was inducted into the AFI Top 100 list at no. 50 for a reason, so I guess I'm not the only one who has this opinion. 

Ok, enough rambling, what what's your favourite Nico?  &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Er, wow.  You really put me on the spot, there.  There's literally nothing I can say that will entirely satisfy everybody, except, perhaps, "I jus'<b> luv </b>me some <i>LOTR</i>!  They're <u><i><b>ALL</b></i></u> my favorites!!!"  And, well, that just won't do.

In a word, here's how I rank them, in my own mind...  (though, it's a little like asking me what my favorite chapters are of my favorite book, y'know?)

[1]  <i>The Two Towers</i>;
[2]  <i>The Fellowship of the Ring</i>;
[3]  <i>The Return of the King</i>.

Allow me to explain...

I totally get what you're saying about <i>Fellowship</i>, and believe me, there's a far closer relationship between <i>TTT </i>and <i>TFotR</i>, than there is between <i>TFotR </i>and <i>TRotK</i>, in my mind...  Meaning, <i>TTT </i>only <u><b>JUST</b></u> "beats out" <i>TFotR </i>in my book.  And of course, it goes without saying that they're <u>ALL</u> <i><b>outstanding</b></i>.  (So, naturally, being the walking cliche that he is, he goes and says it anyway.  Kneebiter.)  

I'm going to start with the technical aspects, 'cause I think they're the easiest to categorize.  <i>Fellowship </i>is <u><i><b>BEAUTIFUL</b></i></u>.  The sets, costumes, art direction, etc., are <u>AMAZING</u>.  The Shire, the Fords of Bruinen, Rivendell, Mordor, Lothlórien, the River Anduin, the Argonath, Parth Galen.  They are, in a word, <u>perfect</u>.  Even Isengard and the too-brief appearance of Weathertop are astonishing.  Now, <u><b>LESS</b></u> perfect, in my opinion, were Bree and Caradhras -- they simply felt too confined, too claustrophobic -- but, really, that's quibbling.  Nearly every single scene elicited gasps of astonishment from me.

The sound design (who will ever forget the sounds of the Battle at the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, or the first piercing shrieks of the Eye of Sauron, or the horrible snuffling of the Nazgûl and their foul, unearthly steeds?) is simply <u>INCREDIBLE</u>.  The special effects are <u><b>AWESOME</b></u>.  (The Entrance to the Mines of Moria, the battle atop Orthanc, <i><b> the Balrog</b></i>...  oh, my.)  The acting is <u>SPECTACULAR</u>.  My God, but Sean Bean deserved an Oscar nomination...  So did Sean Astin, and of course Elijah Wood.

But it's the <b>writing</b> that makes <i>Fellowship</i>, in my opinion.  How Peter jackson condensed the entire <i>history </i>of Middle-earth into just a few minutes of film, I'll never know.  The pacing, the dialogue... it's all fantastic.  This is very nearly my favorite film of the series, and you can tell that Peter took his time with it -- it's the only one that doesn't feel, well, rushed.  (More on that in a minute.)

But, on to <i>The Two Towers</i>.  There are three reasons why it's my <b>very favorite of the series</b>:  [1]  The acting.  My Heavens, but <u><i>EVERYONE</i></u> (with the possible exception of Ian McKellen and Sean Astin, who simply <b><u><i>nail</i></u></b> it in <i>Return of the King</i>) delivers career-best performances here:  Viggo, Orlando, my word, Bernard Hill.  Miranda Otto.  Hugo Weaving, Brad Dourif, Karl Urban.  Even (especially?) Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan, but, oh, my, Elijah and Sean Astin, too.  And one more... but I'll get to that in a moment.  [2]  The big scenes.  Edoras.  Osgiliath.  The Black Gate.  And, oh my, Helm's Deep.  The Battle of Helm's Deep is, quite simply, the most breathtaking spectacle <u><b><i>EVER</i></b></u> committed to film.  It's astonishing...  The Battle's climax is a greater stand-up-and-cheer moment than that at the close of the Battle of Yavin in <i>A New Hope</i>.

However...  it's the third reason that sets <i>The Two Towers </i>head and shoulders above the other two chapters, and that's <b>Gollum</b>.  Andy Serkis and the motion-capture team at WETA needed a special Academy Award for this.  Gollum is perhaps the most heartbreaking character in all of fiction, a fully realized being...  What they do with him is, quite simply, magic.  It's insane.  You want to hold Gollum's head below water.  You want to hug him and make him all better and not crazy anymore at all.  I was actually a fan of <b>Jar Jar Binks</b>, you know -- I thought he was more convincing by far than any <u><i>human</i></u> actor in the entire prequel trilogy -- but I thought <b>Watto </b>was the most interesting personality of Lucas' new Saga... and Gollum just flat handed him his fat, winged ass.  

Now, there are things I <u><b>DON'T</b></u> like about <i>The Two Towers</i>:  <b>John Rhys-Davies </b>is fine, but his voice as Treebeard was distracting -- was <b>Anthony Hopkins </b>not available for three days' of studio recording, or something?  Plus, the Battle of Isengard was, frankly, cheesy.  "<i>It's only a model</i>" kept floating, unbidden, into my head.  There was something undefinably...  <b><u>NOT</u> "<i>WOW!</i>"</b> about the appearance of Gandalf the White.  But, on the whole, I have to say, <i>The Two Towers </i>is just about perfect.  And, by the way, all the technical aspects -- except for the Battle of Isengard -- I loved about <i>Fellowship</i>, are done with very nearly as flawless precision in <i>The Two Towers</i>... it's just not as <b><u>spectacular</u></b>, because, well, we're frankly <u><i><b>used</b></i></u> to exceptionalism, as an audience, by now.

Now, we come to <i>The Return of the King</i>.  And, look, here it is:  It feels <i><u>rushed</u></i>.  Not the story, so much -- I mean, it's got, what, six separate endings? -- but the <i><u>process</u></i>.  Some of the special effects (the Battle of Pelennor Fields, particularly) are simply <u>INCREDIBLE</u>, and some (Osgiliath, Harrowdale and the Paths of the Dead, the Battle of the Black Gate and, especially, the film's climax, Barad-dûr), well, <i>not</i>-so-incredible.  (And, sorry, but the Army of the Dead fighting at Minas Tirith looks flat-out cheesy; I mean, <b><i>bad</i></b> cheesy.  They pop like popcorn all along the levels of the White City... it's snicker-worthy.)   This is a film that could have stood another year of postproduction; the editing is choppy, the pacing terrible, especially in the film's protracted third act.  Yeah, I know, it's J.R.R. Tolkein, but still.  It seemed like Sir Jackson was stumbling to the finish, and I don't think I'm the <b><u>only</u></b> one who felt that way.

There's a lot that didn't make the final cut, and still hasn't:  Éomer reacting to Théoden's (and, he initially thinks, Éowyn's) death; Merry comforting Pippin in the stables of Edoras; the Scourge.  I mean, Tom Bombadil, sure, but how can you leave out the Scourge of the Shire, <u><b><i>especially</i></b></u> after you alluded to it in <i>Fellowship</i>?  Meanwhile, the Shelob bit feels awkward and doesn't really flow with the rest of the story (maybe because it properly belonged in <i>The Two Towers</i>).  Yeah, I'm a purist.  

It's a spectacular film, sure; Sean Astin, Ian McKellen, Billy Boyd and Elijah Wood give bravura performances; but, other than in terms of scale, in my opinion <i>The Return of the King </i>doesn't really <b><u>IMPROVE</u> </b>on the first two chapters, and that's why I rank it the lowest of the trilogy.  (But, hey, not by much.)  There's a lot of emotionalism at the end that I feel obscures how weak the film is, comparatively, to the previous two (and, in particular, <i>The Two Towers</i>)...  Peter Jackson set the bar very, very high with <i>The Fellowship of the Ring</i> and <i>TTT</i>, and, to me at least, <i>The Return of the King </i>doesn't take the next step.  It stumbles and succumbs to the bright glare of its own brilliance, just a little bit; just like Frodo did, just at the end.  

Anyway, I could go on, but I'm going to at least make a vain attempt at sleep tonight.  We can talk about this some more... I'm really not trying to convince you of anything.  <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>,<i> <b>all </b></i>of it, is my favorite film of all time, beating out <i>Empire of the Sun </i>and <i>Star Wars</i>... and that, my friend, ain't too bad at all, no, sir, Mister Frodo.  <i>Hey, hi, a merry-doll...</i>

I remain, as always...


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 28 Sep 2007 02:11:38]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p></p>

		<cite>Nicodemus wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>I was actually a fan of <b>Jar Jar Binks</b>, you know -- I thought he was more convincing by far than any <u><i>human</i></u> actor in the entire prequel trilogy -- but I thought <b>Watto </b>was the most interesting personality of Lucas' new Saga... and Gollum just flat handed him his fat, winged ass.&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

hehe I completely agree. As annoying as he was, he out-acted all of them.

<p></p>

		<cite>Nicodemus wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>(And, sorry, but the Army of the Dead fighting at Minas Tirith looks flat-out cheesy; I mean, <b><i>bad</i></b> cheesy.  They pop like popcorn all along the levels of the White City... it's snicker-worthy.)&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

Completely agree with you. And I don't know, that Pelennor Field did look pretty large and in a wide shot, the green guys ran across it in like 5 seconds or so.

And the criticism I always hear from friends regarding <b>LOTR</b>'s '<b>laziness</b>' in terms of it's plot is always directed at the Army of the Dead and their invincibility. Maybe you could help me out here Nico and shed some light here as I think I fell asleep whilst reading <b>ROTK </b>because I can't seem to recall anything about them in terms of their 'invincibility'. I always hear from people "They <b>f#@*ing CHEATED</b>!!!!! You can't just pull them out!"

<p></p>

		<cite>Nicodemus wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>There's a lot that didn't make the final cut, and still hasn't:  Éomer reacting to Théoden's (and, he initially thinks, Éowyn's) death; Merry comforting Pippin in the stables of Edoras; the Scourge.  I mean, Tom Bombadil, sure, but how can you leave out the Scourge of the Shire, <u><b><i>especially</i></b></u> after you alluded to it in <i>Fellowship</i>?  Meanwhile, the Shelob bit feels awkward and doesn't really flow with the rest of the story (maybe because it properly belonged in <i>The Two Towers</i>).  Yeah, I'm a purist.&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

I'm sure you've seen the <b>Extended Editions</b> Nico. I haven't watched the extended versions for quite a while but I'm sure I remember seeing the aforementioned Eomer and Theoden's death and Pippin scenes. Maybe I'm a little confused then. Also was just reminded of the <font color='green'>apples </font>scene at the end of Two Towers which was very amusing and added some light humour to what was a very dark film. That's what I forgot to mention that maybe turned me slightly off about TTT. There was simply too much <font color='red'>death</font>. 

Reading your thoughts on <b>TTT</b>, you've really convinced me to watch it again and reconsider my thoughts on it. I was actually quite surprised by how highly you regarded <b>TTT</b>. Yeah, I probably did take <b>Gollum </b>for granted, because I thought about it for a minute and realized "wow, <b>Gollum </b>really is an amazing character'.

Thanks for the response Nico.
<i>
P.S. Is it just me? But did anyone else burst out with tears rolling down their face when Aragorn says the line: "You bow to no one" to the Hobbits in ROTK. I've never had instant crying like that.</i>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 28 Sep 2007 04:03:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote> I don't know, that Pelennor Field did look pretty large and in a wide shot, the green guys ran across it in like 5 seconds or so. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Another good point.  (Perhaps they're also the Track Team of the Dead?)



<blockquote>And the criticism I always hear from friends regarding LOTR's 'laziness' in terms of it's plot is always directed at the Army of the Dead and their invincibility. Maybe you could help me out here Nico and shed some light here as I think I fell asleep whilst reading ROTK because I can't seem to recall anything about them in terms of their 'invincibility'. I always hear from people "They f#@*ing CHEATED!!!!! You can't just pull them out!" &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
I'll pull out my dog-eared copy today and daydream...  er, I mean, research about that.



<blockquote>I'm sure you've seen the Extended Editions Nico. I haven't watched the extended versions for quite a while but I'm sure I remember seeing the aforementioned Eomer and Theoden's death and Pippin scenes. Maybe I'm a little confused then. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
It's been quite a while for me, too...  More research.  [Grin]



<blockquote>...Two Towers... was a very dark film. That's what I forgot to mention that maybe turned me slightly off about TTT. There was simply too much death. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
[Nodding]  To non-readers of the Trilogy (not saying you're one of 'em, I believe I know better, just making an observation, here) that seems to be a pretty frequent complaint.  But, Hell, I <b><u>like</u> </b>dark chapters in Trilogies.  <i>Attack of the Clones </i>could have used some of that, actually, which might have lightened <i>Revenge of the Sith </i>up some...  As well as <b><u>losing</u> </b>all the gag-worthy "mushy" talk Lucas shat forth onto the script between Anakin and Padme, having a different name for Count Dooku, and having C-3PO edited out entirely.



<blockquote>Reading your thoughts on <i>TTT</i>, you've really convinced me to watch it again and reconsider my thoughts on it. I was actually quite surprised by how highly you regarded <i>TTT</i>. Yeah, I probably did take Gollum for granted, because I thought about it for a minute and realized "wow, Gollum really is an amazing character'. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Hey, they <b><i>pay</i></b> me to be surprising.  No, wait, that's not right...  They pay me to be <i><b>convincing</b></i>.  No, no, that ain't it, either.  Oh, wait, I've got it!  They don't pay me.  [Grin]

No, seriously, glad I could provide a different perspective.  Let me know what you think of <i>TTT </i>after further reflection and review, and I'll let <u><b><i>you</i></b></u> know what I came up with out of the books and the <i>Two Towers </i>Mega-Kickass Bookshelf Edition.



<blockquote>Thanks for the response Nico. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
You're quite welcome.



<blockquote>P.S. Is it just me? But did anyone else burst out with tears rolling down their face when Aragorn says the line: "You bow to no one" to the Hobbits in <i>ROTK</i>. I've never had instant crying like that. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
It stank vaguely of cheese, but in context I think it worked out fine, and, actually, if I totally supress my cynicism and inherent, general-purpose smart-assedness, it's frankly beautiful.  I have to say, though, I was a little discomfited by <b>Viggo</b>'s delivery at that particular moment, or for that cut; for a second there, I thought I was watching <b>Richard Gere</b>.  Calf-eyed, pliant feminine softness and vulnerability is <u><i><b>NOT</b></i></u> consistent with the character of <b><u>Strider</u></b>, dammit!!!  Gimli, off with his head.  (<i>It <b><u>still</u> </b>counts as one!</i>)


I remain, as always...


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:24:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ "My friends, you bow to no one".

YES! I love that line in the movie, though I can't say it moved me to tears, not nearly as much as the "bedroom" scene in FOTR. Hah. J/k.

Hurray for this thread evolving into "Iron Man" Part 2!  :D]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:52:09]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ la_resistance28]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Just got back from seeing <i>The Kingdom</i>.  I gotta tell you, after a calendar week which included this, <i>Eastern Promises</i> and <i>3:10 to Yuma</i>... well, let's just say I have a much deeper appreciation for the impact quality cinema can have on you.

Nico, after reading your wonderful review, well, I wouldn't say I had my hopes up, because they were high already, but wow.  You really hit the nail on the head.

The casting: rock-solid perfect.  Like you said, no one character stood out above the others.  Foxx, Garner, and especially Cooper (can we lobby Hollywood to get Chris Cooper in every film ever made from here on out?).  And not only that, but Ashraf Barhom just made himself a fan.  A truly outstanding job.

The action: stupendous.  Though I must admit, when I saw the ambush scene in the trailer, my mind immediately went to the (very-similar) ambush scene from <i>Clear and Present Danger</i>, and rightly so.  The pyrotechnics, vehicle chases and shootouts were great, but I never got the sense that they were there specifically to draw people to theaters.

The ending, which Nico alluded to as been one of the most haunting endings of all time:  well, I hate to say it, but since I knew about the existence of this "ending" ahead of time, I kind of had it figured out after the opening scene.  (That is to say, I knew who would be involved, but not the specific content or context.)  And it played out pretty much as I figured.

That being said, it wasn't the greatest movie I've seen this year.  But it was definitely well worth seeing, and I give major props to Peter Berg and Michael Mann for putting it together.

I remain, as always...

In awe.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:32:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shryke42]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>Shrykey-pooh</b>:  Yeah, you <u><i>have</i></u> had a rare week, cinematically.  You can't do much better, as far as what's out there at the moment, than the three titles you mentioned (<i>3:10 to Yuma</i>, <i>Eastern Promises </i>and <i>The Kingdom</i>).  Matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me overmuch to see these three films listed among next year's Best Picture nominees...  Though I have to say, in my opinion only <u>one</u> of them, <i>Eastern Promises</i>, is <u><i>truly</i></u> deserving of that exceptional distinction.  However, I digress.  Point being, I'd call it quits there, pal; you don't want to have your theatrical palette ruined, so to speak, by now force-feeding it <i>The Game Plan</i>, <i>Mr. Woodcock </i>or [involuntary shudder, followed by dry heaving] <i>Dragon Wars</i>.  Binge, don't purge, baby.

Glad to hear I was in the ballpark with <i>The Kingdom</i>.  Though -- this has been bothering me all day -- your comments here reminded me of a gaffe / goof / Nico-ism I accidentally made earlier when chatting up <i>The Kingdom</i>; I referenced <i><b>Patriot Games</b></i>, when I <u><i><b>meant</b></i></u> to say (as you did) <i><b>Clear and Present Danger</b></i>.  (Hey, easy, there, Inspector; they <u><i>both</i></u> have Harrison Ford, cars blowing up, and a big debt to <b>Tom Clancy</b>.  Besides, as frequent readers of this Forum already know, I'm, like, practically a geezer, so naturally I'm suffering from Old-Timer's Disease, Billy.)

<blockquote>...[C]an we lobby Hollywood to get <b>Chris Cooper </b>in every film ever made from here on out?&nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Sounds good to me -- though squeezing him into <i>Tyler Perry's Why Did I Get Married?</i> might present somewhat of a challenge -- except that that job is already taken... by <b>Samuel L. Jackson</b>.  (Previously, it was occupied by <b>Gene Hackman</b>, and before him, <b>Michael Caine</b>.)



<blockquote><b>Ashraf Barhom </b>just made himself a fan. A truly outstanding job. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
Dude wasn't on my radar before, but he sure as Hell is now.  I just hope he manages to avoid being cast as a terrorist or Middle Eastern politician in every Western film he does, from now on.  He needs to be on the short list for next year's Best Supporting Actor Oscar...  He is to <i>The Kingdom </i>what (not to be predictable, here, but...)<b> Tony Shalhoub </b>was to <i>The Siege </i>and (or, here) <b>Alexander Siddig </b>was to <i>Syriana</i>; or, less superficially I hope, what <b>Matt Damon </b>was to <i>Courage Under Fire </i>or <b>Denzel Washington </b>was to <i>Glory</i>.



<blockquote>The pyrotechnics, vehicle chases and shootouts were great, but I never got the sense that they were there specifically to draw people to theaters.&nbsp;
		</blockquote> 
It'll be interesting to see how audiences feel about that.  You and I are in agreement, there, but several of our fellow Fantaversians and not a few critics (including those for the <u><i>Dallas Morning News</i></u> and <u><i>New York Times</i></u>) feel that, ultimately, <i>The Kingdom </i>is this generation's Rambo, or, as one columnist put it, "a dumbed-down <i>Syriana</i>."   I do see their point, but I respectfully disagree.  To me, the action -- for the most part; there is, as I have said, <u>one</u> specific, particularly cringe-worthy moment in a single fight sequence, but no more than that -- serves the story, the character arcs and the underlying theme of the film, and is not in itself gratuitous or romanticized...  I would argue that those who feel differently are either taking things way out of their presented context or are looking for a bone to grind (to hopelessly confuse my metaphors).  

But, unless <i>The Kingdom</i> can build strong word-of-mouth and some rare post-release buzz, it looks as if my original fears <u><i><b>may</b></i></u> be realized:  the country ain't ready for this film, rah-rah or not, and would rather go see silly-assed preteen comedies.  If true, this might just bode particularly ill for several major fall and winter releases constructed around wartime themes -- <i>In the Valley of Elah</i>, <i>Grace is Gone</i>, <i>Redacted</i>, <i>Lions for Lambs</i>, <i>Atonement</i>, <i>Charlie Wilson's War </i>and <i>Rendition</i>, to name a few -- and, perhaps, for <b><i>all <u>sorts</u> </i></b>of "serious" fare.  If I was counting on, say, <i>Elizabeth: The Golden Age </i>(or, as it's become known 'round these parts, <i>Elizabeth II: Elizabeth Harder</i>), <i>Reservation Road</i>, <i>The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford</i>, <i>The Kite Runner</i>, <i>Michael Clayton</i>, <i>No Country for Old Men</i>, <i>The Diving-Bell and the Butterfly</i>, <i>Love in the Time of Cholera </i>or even the family / crime dramas <i>We Own the Night </i>and <i>American Gangster </i>-- and I am, and I will be -- for my current leagues, I might think real hard about lightening my slates up with more, shall we say, conventionally escapist, less weighty titles.  Perhaps the <u><i>Book of Revelations</i></u> is right, and it will turn out that <i>National Treasure: Book of Secrets</i>, <i>Fred Claus </i> and, God help me, <i>Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium</i> will be the season's big winners, in which case, I might just pack up my toys, buy a toothbrush and move to France.  (Hey, <b>Chien</b>, you got a spare room for an ugly American?)  

On the other claw, this apparent resistance to contemporary drama <u><i><b>might</b></i></u> -- if I'm not making a mountain out of a mole hill, here, which could be the case -- be very, very <u><i><b>good</b></i></u> news for Moguls who've invested in <i>Beowulf</i>, <i>I Am Legend</i>, <i>His Dark Materials: The Golden Compass </i>and even (dare I say it?) <i>Bee Movie</i>.  After all, even with the world crashing all around them, Americans will <u><i><b>always</b></i></u> pay good money to watch <i>former</i>, <i>future </i>or <i>fantasy </i>worlds go kablooie -- more than ever, perhaps; look at how <i>Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring </i>performed, right after 9/11 -- if only to distract them from how badly their <u><i><b>own</b></i></u> particular lives suck, by watching someone else's suck even harder.  Particularly if that someone is being pursued by witches, vampires or Fell Beasts of one form or another.  Don't despair, however...  Whatever it all means, or fails to mean, <i>Alvin & the Chipmunks </i>will still suck really, really hard.


<blockquote>I hate to say it, but since I knew about the existence of this "ending" ahead of time, I kind of had it figured out after the opening scene. (That is to say, I knew who would be involved, but not the specific content or context.) And it played out pretty much as I figured. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
[Grimace] [followed by Hamburglar and Mayor McCheese] Damn, I was trying to be coy about that...  Hope I didn't ruin the "surprise" for ya, there -- or for anyone else, for that matter.

<blockquote>I give major props to Peter Berg and Michael Mann for putting it together. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
They already have guys for that.  They're called prop managers and assistants.  [Grin]


Glad ya liked it.  Now if only ten or twelve million other Americans will give it a chance...  I still don't think this film was promoted well, btw.  For all the trailers, all the advertising, <i>The Kingdom</i>'s both more <u>and</u> less than what the studio's hyping... in all the best ways.


I remain, as always... 


Nico.
]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:49:24]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>Nico:</b>
<i>"You and I are in agreement, there, but several of our fellow Fantaversians and not a few critics..."</i>

"Fantaversians"??! Is that what the citizens of the Fantasy Moguls universe are called? Ew, I say. It makes us sound like drinkers of a certain artificially-flavored fruit soda.  Don't cha wanna, wanna Fanta? :shock:]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:46:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ la_resistance28]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ We don't <i>have</i> to be, <b>Vive</b>.  We few, we happy few, we band of brothers who call this, the Fantaverse, home, could also try, <i><b>Fantaversites</b></i>, or <i><b>Fantaversonians</b></i>, or <i><b>Questarians</b></i>, or even <i><b><u>Steve</u></b></i>.  ("<i>Let's call it <u>Steve</u>!</i>")  I just wanted something a little peppier, a little snappier, than the tired, predictable <i><b>Moguls</b></i>, which is often confused with a 16th-Century Indian empire, or someone related to Worf and Kurn.

If we <b><u>ARE</u> </b>going to be confused with the Fantanas, however, I want to be Kiki, or Lola.  

<i>We like to buy and dump movies!  We think that is pretty groovy!
In the dumps 'cause your slate sucks, now?  Try another hundred bucks, now!
Wanna league now, don'tcha wanta?  Wanna play now, don'tcha wanta?</i>

I remain, as always...


Very, very disturbed.  (Okay, I'll be <u><b>ANYBODY</b></u> but Sophia!)]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:52:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ What about <b>"FantaMs"</b> or <b>"FantsyPants"</b>? I actually do like <b>"The STEVEs"</b>, though it's odd that Steve (Mason) is the only FM columnist who's rarely on the boards, any reason why? Oh, and I doubt anyone would ever get us confused with the Sons of Mogh, as neither brothers are members of that House any more, what with Worf now under Martok, and Kurn as an self-imposed amnesiac... ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sat, 29 Sep 2007 23:33:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ la_resistance28]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p></p>

		<cite>la_resistance28 wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>though it's odd that Steve (Mason) is the only FM columnist who's rarely on the boards, any reason why?&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

I'm sure he has other things to attend to, such as managing his chain of theatres and asking studios for early estimates.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:15:06]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p></p>

		<cite>Nicodemus wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>Whatever it all means, or fails to mean, <i>Alvin & the Chipmunks </i>will still suck really, really hard.&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

Can't agree with you more. I hate films like this.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:19:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Saw The Kingdom last night it was great. The acting with the exception of Jennifer Garner was fantastic. The story was compelling there were some great action sequences and one of the most haunting endings ever in a film.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:08:23]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ transformers2]]></author>
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				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote>If true, this might just bode particularly ill for several major fall and winter releases constructed around wartime themes -- In the Valley of Elah, Grace is Gone, Redacted, Lions for Lambs, Atonement&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

Atonement?  I thought that was a gooshy romance-novel turned movie starring Keira...]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Oct 2007 07:37:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MrHen]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Maybe he meant Rendition?? Atonement is primarily a "gooshy" romance, but it touches on WWII, so perhapsthats why it was mentioned as being wartime... at very least we have an unusual load of films coming up that  incorporate war.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Oct 2007 08:14:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ becs]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>Vive</b>:  I gotta tell ya, "<b><i>FantaM's</i></b>" is pretty damned sweet.  And your knowledge of all things Trek is, frankly, both awe-inspiring and... disturbing.  [Grin]  <b>Batlh bIHeghjaj!</b>  <i>{Translation from the Klingon:  [1] <b>May you die well</b>; [2] <b>Good-bye</b>; [3] <b>Would you like fries with that?</b>} </i>


<b>tuan</b>:  [Nodding]  Mr. Mason actually <u><i><b>HAS</b></i></u> a job -- two or three, last time I checked, anyway -- unlike some mischievious rodents with nothing, apparently, better to do with their time than quibble over minutae and research obscure languages that exist only in Spike TV late-night reruns.  


<b>transformers</b>:  Glad you liked <i>The Kingdom</i>.  


<b>becs</b>:  I actually did mean <i>Atonement</i>, for just the reason you mentioned...  I had also cited <i>Rendition </i>in that same paragraph...  and you are absolutely correct when you say,

<blockquote>at very least we have an unusual load of films coming up that incorporate war. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
[Nodding]  <b>Far too many</b>, I fear, at least if we are to invest in their success as both financial entities and cultural commentaries.  With all this noise, many, if not most, are bound to be drowned out...  The first to suffer from War Film Fatigue, I believe, will be <i>In the Valley of Elah</i>, which is a damned shame because it contains <b>the very <u>best</u> performance of Tommy Lee Jones's career</b>.  Oscar, however, may and should take notice, even if few others will...


I remain, as always...


Nico.  (The <i>FantaM</i> Menace.)]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:35:08]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p></p>

		<cite>Nicodemus wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote>With all this noise, many, if not most, are bound to be drowned out...  The first to suffer from War Film Fatigue, I believe, will be <i>In the Valley of Elah</i>, which is a damned shame because it contains <b>the very <u>best</u> performance of Tommy Lee Jones's career</b>.  Oscar, however, may and should take notice, even if few others will...


I remain, as always...


Nico.  (The <i>FantaM</i> Menace.)&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

Maybe the distributor could do a <b>Crash</b>-style overload of DVDs sent to all the Academy voters and maybe steal the Best Picture Oscar.

Brokeback should have won!!!!!]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 1 Oct 2007 21:33:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ You're absolutely right about the Tommy Lee Jones performance in 'In the Valley of Elah.' What an emotionally devastating and shattering film. He should certainly get a Best Actor nomination. I thought the film was brilliant but I wish the last minute or so (you know, where the pop-music video starts?) had been dropped. The film would have been <i>perfect</i> if the last shot had been Tommy Lee Jones sitting on his bed with the contents of the opened package in his hands. Spoiler-free thoughts from anyone else who has seen the film?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:15:56]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ A_Roode]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>A_Roode</b>:  When you said [<b><u>SPOILER</u> </b>-- swipe to read): <font color='white'> The film would have been perfect if the last shot had been <b>Tommy Lee Jones </b>sitting on his bed with the contents of the opened package in his hands... </font>, I got goosebumps, and not the <b>R.L. Stine</b> kind.  Wow.  What a fantastic, <font color='white'><i>Seven</i></font> moment.  You ought to have been brought in to tweak the script, dude.  Seriously.

If the filmmakers had taken that cue from you, my friend, my bet is there would be <b><u>no</u> <u>way</u> </b><i>In the Valley of Elah</i> could <u><i><b>possibly</b></i></u> be denied a shot at Best Picture.  

Great stuff, there.  Props, man.


I remain, as always...


An Admirer.
]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:13:21]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Well, Nico, I finally got to see The Kingdom. Firstly, this film has recived more different, contradictory, and opposing reviews than I've ever seen. 

However, they're all wrong. It's neither great nor awful. 

Here;s what I liked- the crime aspect, the detecting aspect, the initial scenes where the FBI are restricted from doing anything. And of course, the big shoot-out, which is as good as anything Bourne has done. 

Here's what I disliked- the politics. The Saudis are treated as either idiots or terrorists. I mean surely the Saudi police has SOME sense of forensics, but this film depicts them as morons. And that scene where the team are chasing after their captured friend, and they drive in to a dangerous area... and suddenly it feels as if everyone has an ak47 in their living room- it just felt a little silly. Which would be fine, but the film tries to be realistic with its opening mini-history of US-Saudi relations, and that talked-about final moment, which makes a very, very dangerous link between the FBI and terrorists- it's either a moronic broad statement that makes no sense, or an end-note to show the spiral of violence will always continue. If the latter, that point should have been developed more throughout the movie. 

Overall, I think A Roode said it best, this film should be called Rambo 5: Syriana- but it really can't be both. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 8 Oct 2007 03:24:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ numbersix_99]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <b>Six</b>:  Glad you finally got to see it!  Hope you didn't think I encouraged you to waste your money.


To reply, briefly...
<blockquote>...[T]his film has recived more different, contradictory, and opposing reviews than I've ever seen. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
[Nodding]  Yeah, I'd have to agree with that.  Maybe its genre-spanning ambitions trip everyone up.



<blockquote>Here;s what I liked- the crime aspect, the detecting aspect, the initial scenes where the FBI are restricted from doing anything. And of course, the big shoot-out, which is as good as anything <i>Bourne </i>has done. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
All agreed.



<blockquote>...[W]hat I disliked- the politics. The Saudis are treated as either idiots or terrorists. I mean surely the Saudi police has SOME sense of forensics, but this film depicts them as morons. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
You've got a point, here, no question.  With the exception of Colonel Al Ghazi (and, really, I <u><i>CANNOT</i></u> say enough about newcomer <b>Ashraf Barhom</b>'s performance in <i>The Kingdom</i>...), all Saudis are portrayed as either obfuscators, boobs or tools.  I, too, would have preferred to see a little more (forgive the computer-nerd term, here) "peer-to-peer" interaction in the film.  For certain, the Kingdom of Saud may not be <i>on the same <u>page</u> </i>as the U.S., but it's not exactly <i>the Third World</i>, either.  They have <u><i>more</i></u> than enough money and intellect to have a solid, professionally run national police force, personal loyalites and politics aside.



<blockquote>And that scene where the team are chasing after their captured friend, and they drive in to a dangerous area... and suddenly it feels as if everyone has an ak47 in their living room- it just felt a little silly. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
I'm not sure I agree that it's silly...  There are certainly neighborhoods in Egypt, Lebanon, Somalia, the West Bank and, of course, Iraq which more closely resemble National Guard armory than, say, Mayberry.  Guns <u><i>ARE</i></u> political cache in many countries around the world...  But, I'm not sure Saudi Arabia is one of them.  The Saudi Royal Family lives in constant fear of insurrection and a general uprising, I don't know how liberal they are in terms of who can own guns, or mortars, or SAMs.  One would hope that, at least, shoulder-mounted anti-tank missiles would come with a five-day waiting period.  <i>The Kingdom </i>may have portrayed certain sectors of Baghdad far more accurately than it did, say, Riyadh.   



<blockquote>[T]he film tries to be realistic with its opening mini-history of US-Saudi relations, and that talked-about final moment, which makes a very, very dangerous link between the FBI and terrorists- it's either a moronic broad statement that makes no sense, or an end-note to show the spiral of violence will always continue. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
I'm in total agreement with the latter.



<blockquote>If the latter, that point should have been developed more throughout the movie. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
See, here's where I get something very, very different out of it.  I think <i>The Kingdom</i> is very much a film that is intended to work on multiple levels, and that changes, quite powerfully, as the minutes tick by.  You enter, as an audience member, with perhaps conflicting expectations of what you are about to see.  A carefully detached history lesson follows, which gives you some context, some knowledge.  Much good will it do you.  Then the <u><i>next</i></u> hour and a half of the film, with its portrayal of sympathetic American characters and their plight, putting them in a variety of (first, nonviolent) situations where we can't <u><i>help</i></u> but root for them -- their difficulties investigating the attacks, their head-butting with locals, their investments in goodwill with Saudi counterparts -- <u><b>THEN</b></u>, putting them in mortal danger, with ever-building crises culminating in an all-out firefight / brawl, is designed to <b><u>STRIP</u> YOU OF THAT CONTEXT</b>.  To make you <i><u>[i]INVEST</i></u>[/i] in these (American) characters and their lone Saudi collaborator, to become an <i>advocate</i>, a <i><u>partisan</u></i>.  (Just like everybody else who comes to the Kingdom, no matter their original intent.)  To <b><u>DENY</u> <u>YOU</u> THE <u><i>ABILITY</i></u> TO <u>REMAIN</u> <u>DET</u>ACHED</b>.  You enter this world, especially after such a refined, deliberately apolitical mini-documentary, perhaps expecting to see everything at an emotional remove.  Then, the roller-coaster begins, and by then end you can't <u><i>HELP</i></u> but cheer for these Americans as they variously shoot, smash and detonate all comers.  Then we come to the end, and everybody's having that Taster's Choice moment, feeling good for having "won," and thinking that all is right with the world -- the good guys (Americans) came, sought, fought, persevered and emerged victorious, and they get to go home now and close the book on this, and they go on to bigger and better things, having "spread democracy" to yet another corner of the globe, and their world is that much <i>safer </i>now, their enemies having been vanquished.

Only...  their world <u><i><b>ISN'T</b></i></u> safer, and their enemies <u><i><b>HAVEN'T</b></i></u> been vanquished, and what we've <i><u>spread</u></i>, no matter what its <i>original</i>, peaceable intentions -- to catch killers, to preserve order, to <b>BRING THEM TO <u><i>JUSTICE</i></u> </b>-- what their legacy will be, in the end, is merely to <i><b>SPREAD THE <u>FIRE</u></b></i>.  The end is the beginning again.  Now we see <i><u>exactly</u> </i>what we're faced with:  The enemy is <u><i><b>US</b></i></u>.  Just as passionate, just as aggrieved, just as adamant, just as deadly.  And just thirty seconds ago we were cheering.  For Rambo.

I think it all adds up to one of the very best [<b>strong language </b>-- swipe to read]<font color='white'>mind-fucks </font>in the history of modern cinema.  We walk in, with our pretty convictions and safe nonjudgmentalism, sitting on the sidelines, status quo.  (We can afford to be -- we haven't got skin in the game, yet.  The rest of the movie is to get us to <i><u>IDENTIFY</u></i> with the skin that <u><i><b>IS</b></i></u> in the game.)  We get caught up in the blood and the heat and the moment, and end up cheering as "our guys" win.  Then, <i><u><b>SMACK</b></u></i>, we find out, no one won <u><i><b>ANYTHING</b></i></u>.  A new blood debt, a new cycle.  A new day in The Kingdom.  All we did was made it go on.  And on, and on.

I stand by my original review.  But, I'm glad you liked what you did!

I'll conclude by saying this:  You're right... <i>The Kingdom </i>is both less <u><i>AND</i></u> more than what people expected.  

And, I've had a heckuva lot of fun talking about it.  Thanks!


I remain, as always...


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:35:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Nico, while I can't say I liked The Kingdom, I definitely don't regret paying to see it- hell, it's been a while since I've seen a film that prompted so much debate. 

And yes, you're right about the film- it's a gung-ho action film that turns itself on its head at the very end. But it's that last momentthat frustrates me. I felt as if the director pulls a very glib mood, jerking the audience in a very direct way: "you're supposed to think this, but HAH, you're wrong, look at THIS"- moves should show, not tell, and I felt a bit jerke aound by the film's director. But hey, maybe more actions movies should jerk audiences around- at lewast the film is generating debate. 

i personally would have liked to have seen it been made in another way, like Syriana, which, when you look for the "bad-guy", is a very subtle film. Now if only The Game Plan did the same. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 8 Oct 2007 15:42:37]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ numbersix_99]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote>i personally would have liked to have seen it been made in another way, like <i>Syriana</i>, which, when you look for the "bad-guy", is a very subtle film. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
There's a reason <i>Syriana </i>is in my personal Top Ten Films of All Time.  One of my favorite quotes from that film:  "<i>He's a soldier.  He's just like you.</i>"  An interminably fascinating, entrancingly thought-provoking, endlessly rewatchable film.



<blockquote>Now if only<i> The Game Plan </i>did the same. &nbsp;
		</blockquote>
[Snort]  I love your sense of humor, <b>Six</b>.  We should talk more.  [Grin]


I remain, as always...


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 9 Oct 2007 00:12:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Is The Kingdom in any way similar to a little film called <b>Transformers</b>?

Wait, anyhow, we never actually got your opinion on <b>Lord Michael Bay's</b> Transformers <b>Nico</b> because you went fishing at Lake Placid.

So what did you think of it <b>Nico</b>?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 9 Oct 2007 00:14:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ [Laughing]  

Hm, what did I think of <i>Transformers</i>?  What did I think of <i>Transformers</i>...


I'll really try to make this brief.


First off, I friggin' <u><i><b>LOVED</b></i></u> the film.  It was just about the most exhilirating time I've had at the movies since <i>Return of the Jedi</i>, or at least since <i>Armageddon </i>(which, unlike some folks around here, I happen to <b><u><i>ADORE</i></u></b>).  It was a total roller-coaster ride, the perfect popcorn film.

The special effects, the technical achievements, the hard-rock soundtrack elements, were <u><i><b>FLAWLESS</b></i></u>.  <b>Michael Bay</b>'s interpretation / realization of the Autobots and Decepticons were absurdly fantastic.  He kept the film grounded in the adolescent roots of the concept, the manic glee with which kids have mashed together warring robots locked in mortal battle for generations.  He injected enough menace and violence to make the film accessible to mature audiences, too, without losing the gee-whiz appeal younger fans have always been drawn to.

My wife even liked this film, which is really, really saying something.  She is <u><i><b>SO</b></i></u> not its audience.

That being said... it was far from flawless.

Parts dragged for me.  I thought there were too many human characters, and many of them were poorly conceived, scripted, cast and executed.  There were too many attempts at cheap humor, a lot of pacing problems.  <b>John Turturro </b>was ridiculous. <b> Jon Voight </b>was stiffer than a circuit board.  And a lot of the film score, the non-singles, instrumental elements I mean, was uninspired and sounded like it had been cribbed from other Bay films.

Some of the battles, particularly the final street confrontation, went on too long.  There wasn't enough character development of the Transformers themselves, other than Prime and Bumblebee.  And I thought the entire concept of the All-Spark was just this side of stupid.  Same for the Hoover Dam plot element.

But what the film did right, it did <u><i><b>REALLY</b></i></u> right.  <b>Shia LaBeouf </b>and <b>Megan Fox </b>turned in <u><i><b>FANTASTIC</b></i></u> performances, and everything about the interaction between Bumblebee and his two human friends was <u><i><b>PERFECT</b></i></u>.  I loved <b>Kevin Dunn</b>.  <b>Josh Duhamel </b>grabbed my attention.
      
<b><u><i>LOVED</i></u> Hugo Weaving </b>as Cybertron, though personally I had hoped the filmmakers would cast <b>Vin Diesel</b>.  The interactions between Cybertron and Starscream hinted at a backstory I'd love to see more of.  Sam Witwicky hocking his ancestor's prized possessions on eBay was just inspired, taking the character in a totally different direction from what we've come to expect out of these sorts of movies.  And Frenzy was just terrific.

But for all its minor faults, I thought this film was really something.  I gave it an 8/10 on IMDb, and would grade it a solid B.  It was <u><i><b>exactly</b></i></u> what a summer blockbuster ought to be:  inventive, spectacular, fun, loud, rowdy.  It's in my Top Ten of the year.  I'm hoping for great things from the sequel.


I remain, as always...


Nico.
]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 9 Oct 2007 00:53:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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			<item>
				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p></p>

		<cite>Nicodemus wrote:</cite><br>
		<blockquote><b><u><i>LOVED</i></u> Hugo Weaving </b>as Cybertron, though personally I had hoped the filmmakers would cast <b>Vin Diesel</b>.  The interactions between Cybertron and Starscream hinted at a backstory I'd love to see more of.&nbsp;
		</blockquote>

I mean I'm not the biggest Transformers nerd on the planet but I remember <b>Hugo Weaving</b> playing the voice of a character named <b>Megatron</b>, not the Transformers' home planet <b>Cybertron</b>. Hehe <b>Nico</b>, that's the best typo ever.

Or unless you managed to get your hands on a spanish-dubbed and incorrectly-subtitled version of the film.

And I'm glad to hear you loved the film.

I'm glad to find another person that had a flying good time with Armageddon as much as I did.

But I must say this ultra-condensed version of <b>Armageddon</b> is damn hilarious.

<a href='http://www.rinkworks.com/movieaminute/m/armageddon.shtml' target='_new' rel="nofollow">http://www.rinkworks.com/movieaminute/m/armageddon.shtml</a>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 9 Oct 2007 03:32:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ tuan69]]></author>
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				<title>Re:the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Whups.  Er, yeah, <i>Megatron</i>.  It was pretty darned lat when I typed that...


I remain, as always...


Nico.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 9 Oct 2007 11:02:08]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Nicodemus]]></author>
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				<title>the kingdom</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Nico are you saying you liked starscream.  Cause if you do.....  Your like my new best friend.  Easily my fav character.  Always has been.  He was great because he was pretty much the only one who always thought for himself rather than the team.  Hehehe...  Anyways.  Everyone knows it comes out next tuesday right?  I can't decide which one to buy.  Best buy has a thirty dol