My Studios

I don't know, that Pelennor Field did look pretty large and in a wide shot, the green guys ran across it in like 5 seconds or so.

Another good point. (Perhaps they're also the Track Team of the Dead?)

And the criticism I always hear from friends regarding LOTR's 'laziness' in terms of it's plot is always directed at the Army of the Dead and their invincibility. Maybe you could help me out here Nico and shed some light here as I think I fell asleep whilst reading ROTK because I can't seem to recall anything about them in terms of their 'invincibility'. I always hear from people "They f#@*ing CHEATED!!!!! You can't just pull them out!"

I'll pull out my dog-eared copy today and daydream... er, I mean, research about that.

I'm sure you've seen the Extended Editions Nico. I haven't watched the extended versions for quite a while but I'm sure I remember seeing the aforementioned Eomer and Theoden's death and Pippin scenes. Maybe I'm a little confused then.

It's been quite a while for me, too... More research. [Grin]

...Two Towers... was a very dark film. That's what I forgot to mention that maybe turned me slightly off about TTT. There was simply too much death.

[Nodding] To non-readers of the Trilogy (not saying you're one of 'em, I believe I know better, just making an observation, here) that seems to be a pretty frequent complaint. But, Hell, I like dark chapters in Trilogies. Attack of the Clones could have used some of that, actually, which might have lightened Revenge of the Sith up some... As well as losing all the gag-worthy "mushy" talk Lucas shat forth onto the script between Anakin and Padme, having a different name for Count Dooku, and having C-3PO edited out entirely.

Reading your thoughts on TTT, you've really convinced me to watch it again and reconsider my thoughts on it. I was actually quite surprised by how highly you regarded TTT. Yeah, I probably did take Gollum for granted, because I thought about it for a minute and realized "wow, Gollum really is an amazing character'.

Hey, they pay me to be surprising. No, wait, that's not right... They pay me to be convincing. No, no, that ain't it, either. Oh, wait, I've got it! They don't pay me. [Grin]

No, seriously, glad I could provide a different perspective. Let me know what you think of TTT after further reflection and review, and I'll let you know what I came up with out of the books and the Two Towers Mega-Kickass Bookshelf Edition.

Thanks for the response Nico.

You're quite welcome.

P.S. Is it just me? But did anyone else burst out with tears rolling down their face when Aragorn says the line: "You bow to no one" to the Hobbits in ROTK. I've never had instant crying like that.

It stank vaguely of cheese, but in context I think it worked out fine, and, actually, if I totally supress my cynicism and inherent, general-purpose smart-assedness, it's frankly beautiful. I have to say, though, I was a little discomfited by Viggo's delivery at that particular moment, or for that cut; for a second there, I thought I was watching Richard Gere. Calf-eyed, pliant feminine softness and vulnerability is NOT consistent with the character of Strider, dammit!!! Gimli, off with his head. (It still counts as one!)

I remain, as always...

Nico.

"My friends, you bow to no one".

YES! I love that line in the movie, though I can't say it moved me to tears, not nearly as much as the "bedroom" scene in FOTR. Hah. J/k.

Hurray for this thread evolving into "Iron Man" Part 2!

Just got back from seeing The Kingdom. I gotta tell you, after a calendar week which included this, Eastern Promises and 3:10 to Yuma... well, let's just say I have a much deeper appreciation for the impact quality cinema can have on you.

Nico, after reading your wonderful review, well, I wouldn't say I had my hopes up, because they were high already, but wow. You really hit the nail on the head.

The casting: rock-solid perfect. Like you said, no one character stood out above the others. Foxx, Garner, and especially Cooper (can we lobby Hollywood to get Chris Cooper in every film ever made from here on out?). And not only that, but Ashraf Barhom just made himself a fan. A truly outstanding job.

The action: stupendous. Though I must admit, when I saw the ambush scene in the trailer, my mind immediately went to the (very-similar) ambush scene from Clear and Present Danger, and rightly so. The pyrotechnics, vehicle chases and shootouts were great, but I never got the sense that they were there specifically to draw people to theaters.

The ending, which Nico alluded to as been one of the most haunting endings of all time: well, I hate to say it, but since I knew about the existence of this "ending" ahead of time, I kind of had it figured out after the opening scene. (That is to say, I knew who would be involved, but not the specific content or context.) And it played out pretty much as I figured.

That being said, it wasn't the greatest movie I've seen this year. But it was definitely well worth seeing, and I give major props to Peter Berg and Michael Mann for putting it together.

I remain, as always...

In awe.

Shrykey-pooh: Yeah, you have had a rare week, cinematically. You can't do much better, as far as what's out there at the moment, than the three titles you mentioned (3:10 to Yuma, Eastern Promises and The Kingdom). Matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me overmuch to see these three films listed among next year's Best Picture nominees... Though I have to say, in my opinion only one of them, Eastern Promises, is truly deserving of that exceptional distinction. However, I digress. Point being, I'd call it quits there, pal; you don't want to have your theatrical palette ruined, so to speak, by now force-feeding it The Game Plan, Mr. Woodcock or [involuntary shudder, followed by dry heaving] Dragon Wars. Binge, don't purge, baby.

Glad to hear I was in the ballpark with The Kingdom. Though -- this has been bothering me all day -- your comments here reminded me of a gaffe / goof / Nico-ism I accidentally made earlier when chatting up The Kingdom; I referenced Patriot Games, when I meant to say (as you did) Clear and Present Danger. (Hey, easy, there, Inspector; they both have Harrison Ford, cars blowing up, and a big debt to Tom Clancy. Besides, as frequent readers of this Forum already know, I'm, like, practically a geezer, so naturally I'm suffering from Old-Timer's Disease, Billy.)

...[C]an we lobby Hollywood to get Chris Cooper in every film ever made from here on out?

Sounds good to me -- though squeezing him into Tyler Perry's Why Did I Get Married? might present somewhat of a challenge -- except that that job is already taken... by Samuel L. Jackson. (Previously, it was occupied by Gene Hackman, and before him, Michael Caine.)

Ashraf Barhom just made himself a fan. A truly outstanding job.

Dude wasn't on my radar before, but he sure as Hell is now. I just hope he manages to avoid being cast as a terrorist or Middle Eastern politician in every Western film he does, from now on. He needs to be on the short list for next year's Best Supporting Actor Oscar... He is to The Kingdom what (not to be predictable, here, but...) Tony Shalhoub was to The Siege and (or, here) Alexander Siddig was to Syriana; or, less superficially I hope, what Matt Damon was to Courage Under Fire or Denzel Washington was to Glory.

The pyrotechnics, vehicle chases and shootouts were great, but I never got the sense that they were there specifically to draw people to theaters.

It'll be interesting to see how audiences feel about that. You and I are in agreement, there, but several of our fellow Fantaversians and not a few critics (including those for the Dallas Morning News and New York Times) feel that, ultimately, The Kingdom is this generation's Rambo, or, as one columnist put it, "a dumbed-down Syriana." I do see their point, but I respectfully disagree. To me, the action -- for the most part; there is, as I have said, one specific, particularly cringe-worthy moment in a single fight sequence, but no more than that -- serves the story, the character arcs and the underlying theme of the film, and is not in itself gratuitous or romanticized... I would argue that those who feel differently are either taking things way out of their presented context or are looking for a bone to grind (to hopelessly confuse my metaphors).

But, unless The Kingdom can build strong word-of-mouth and some rare post-release buzz, it looks as if my original fears may be realized: the country ain't ready for this film, rah-rah or not, and would rather go see silly-assed preteen comedies. If true, this might just bode particularly ill for several major fall and winter releases constructed around wartime themes -- In the Valley of Elah, Grace is Gone, Redacted, Lions for Lambs, Atonement, Charlie Wilson's War and Rendition, to name a few -- and, perhaps, for all sorts of "serious" fare. If I was counting on, say, Elizabeth: The Golden Age (or, as it's become known 'round these parts, Elizabeth II: Elizabeth Harder), Reservation Road, The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford, The Kite Runner, Michael Clayton, No Country for Old Men, The Diving-Bell and the Butterfly, Love in the Time of Cholera or even the family / crime dramas We Own the Night and American Gangster -- and I am, and I will be -- for my current leagues, I might think real hard about lightening my slates up with more, shall we say, conventionally escapist, less weighty titles. Perhaps the Book of Revelations is right, and it will turn out that National Treasure: Book of Secrets, Fred Claus and, God help me, Mr. Magorium's Wonder Emporium will be the season's big winners, in which case, I might just pack up my toys, buy a toothbrush and move to France. (Hey, Chien, you got a spare room for an ugly American?)

On the other claw, this apparent resistance to contemporary drama might -- if I'm not making a mountain out of a mole hill, here, which could be the case -- be very, very good news for Moguls who've invested in Beowulf, I Am Legend, His Dark Materials: The Golden Compass and even (dare I say it?) Bee Movie. After all, even with the world crashing all around them, Americans will always pay good money to watch former, future or fantasy worlds go kablooie -- more than ever, perhaps; look at how Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring performed, right after 9/11 -- if only to distract them from how badly their own particular lives suck, by watching someone else's suck even harder. Particularly if that someone is being pursued by witches, vampires or Fell Beasts of one form or another. Don't despair, however... Whatever it all means, or fails to mean, Alvin & the Chipmunks will still suck really, really hard.

I hate to say it, but since I knew about the existence of this "ending" ahead of time, I kind of had it figured out after the opening scene. (That is to say, I knew who would be involved, but not the specific content or context.) And it played out pretty much as I figured.

[Grimace] [followed by Hamburglar and Mayor McCheese] Damn, I was trying to be coy about that... Hope I didn't ruin the "surprise" for ya, there -- or for anyone else, for that matter.

I give major props to Peter Berg and Michael Mann for putting it together.

They already have guys for that. They're called prop managers and assistants. [Grin]

Glad ya liked it. Now if only ten or twelve million other Americans will give it a chance... I still don't think this film was promoted well, btw. For all the trailers, all the advertising, The Kingdom's both more and less than what the studio's hyping... in all the best ways.

I remain, as always...

Nico.

Nico:
"You and I are in agreement, there, but several of our fellow Fantaversians and not a few critics..."

"Fantaversians"??! Is that what the citizens of the Fantasy Moguls universe are called? Ew, I say. It makes us sound like drinkers of a certain artificially-flavored fruit soda. Don't cha wanna, wanna Fanta?

We don't have to be, Vive. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers who call this, the Fantaverse, home, could also try, Fantaversites, or Fantaversonians, or Questarians, or even Steve. ("Let's call it Steve!") I just wanted something a little peppier, a little snappier, than the tired, predictable Moguls, which is often confused with a 16th-Century Indian empire, or someone related to Worf and Kurn.

If we ARE going to be confused with the Fantanas, however, I want to be Kiki, or Lola.

We like to buy and dump movies! We think that is pretty groovy!
In the dumps 'cause your slate sucks, now? Try another hundred bucks, now!
Wanna league now, don'tcha wanta? Wanna play now, don'tcha wanta?

I remain, as always...

Very, very disturbed. (Okay, I'll be ANYBODY but Sophia!)

What about "FantaMs" or "FantsyPants"? I actually do like "The STEVEs", though it's odd that Steve (Mason) is the only FM columnist who's rarely on the boards, any reason why? Oh, and I doubt anyone would ever get us confused with the Sons of Mogh, as neither brothers are members of that House any more, what with Worf now under Martok, and Kurn as an self-imposed amnesiac...

la_resistance28 wrote:

though it's odd that Steve (Mason) is the only FM columnist who's rarely on the boards, any reason why?

I'm sure he has other things to attend to, such as managing his chain of theatres and asking studios for early estimates.

Nicodemus wrote:

Whatever it all means, or fails to mean, Alvin & the Chipmunks will still suck really, really hard.

Can't agree with you more. I hate films like this.

Saw The Kingdom last night it was great. The acting with the exception of Jennifer Garner was fantastic. The story was compelling there were some great action sequences and one of the most haunting endings ever in a film.

If true, this might just bode particularly ill for several major fall and winter releases constructed around wartime themes -- In the Valley of Elah, Grace is Gone, Redacted, Lions for Lambs, Atonement

Atonement? I thought that was a gooshy romance-novel turned movie starring Keira...

Maybe he meant Rendition?? Atonement is primarily a "gooshy" romance, but it touches on WWII, so perhapsthats why it was mentioned as being wartime... at very least we have an unusual load of films coming up that incorporate war.

Vive: I gotta tell ya, "FantaM's" is pretty damned sweet. And your knowledge of all things Trek is, frankly, both awe-inspiring and... disturbing. [Grin] Batlh bIHeghjaj! {Translation from the Klingon: [1] May you die well; [2] Good-bye; [3] Would you like fries with that?}

tuan: [Nodding] Mr. Mason actually HAS a job -- two or three, last time I checked, anyway -- unlike some mischievious rodents with nothing, apparently, better to do with their time than quibble over minutae and research obscure languages that exist only in Spike TV late-night reruns.

transformers: Glad you liked The Kingdom.

becs: I actually did mean Atonement, for just the reason you mentioned... I had also cited Rendition in that same paragraph... and you are absolutely correct when you say,

at very least we have an unusual load of films coming up that incorporate war.

[Nodding] Far too many, I fear, at least if we are to invest in their success as both financial entities and cultural commentaries. With all this noise, many, if not most, are bound to be drowned out... The first to suffer from War Film Fatigue, I believe, will be In the Valley of Elah, which is a damned shame because it contains the very best performance of Tommy Lee Jones's career. Oscar, however, may and should take notice, even if few others will...

I remain, as always...

Nico. (The FantaM Menace.)

Nicodemus wrote:

With all this noise, many, if not most, are bound to be drowned out... The first to suffer from War Film Fatigue, I believe, will be In the Valley of Elah, which is a damned shame because it contains the very best performance of Tommy Lee Jones's career. Oscar, however, may and should take notice, even if few others will...

I remain, as always...

Nico. (The FantaM Menace.)

Maybe the distributor could do a Crash-style overload of DVDs sent to all the Academy voters and maybe steal the Best Picture Oscar.

Brokeback should have won!!!!!

You're absolutely right about the Tommy Lee Jones performance in 'In the Valley of Elah.' What an emotionally devastating and shattering film. He should certainly get a Best Actor nomination. I thought the film was brilliant but I wish the last minute or so (you know, where the pop-music video starts?) had been dropped. The film would have been perfect if the last shot had been Tommy Lee Jones sitting on his bed with the contents of the opened package in his hands. Spoiler-free thoughts from anyone else who has seen the film?

My Studios

ADVICE & ANALYSIS: