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One of the hardest things for me to figure this season is whether We Own the Night is going to be a fair-sized hit, or a total friggin' dud. I was initially pretty high on this title, but after realizing how familiar / derivative it seemed to be, I embraced my de facto skepticism and ended up predicting a meager $33 million for the Phoenix-Wahlberg-Duvall film. I did end up taking it in the October-December "Regulars" league (Ultimate), but I haven't been very happy with this decision... Even at only $10, it seemed like a lot to bank on a very iffy prospect. However, today I'm not so sure.

With approaching a thousand votes in the bank, We Own the Night has a VERY respectable 8.3 IMDb score, putting it right up there with season-best entries like Control, Lust, Caution and Lars and the Real Girl and ahead of well-received films like The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, The Darjeeling Limited and Before the Devil Knows You're Dead. Although critical responses have been, to put it mildly, mixed (Variety's review, calling it "exceptionally conventional," was a study in minimalist praise and restrained enthusiasm The Hollywood Reporter similiarly concluded that the film was "overly familiar"; Rolling Stone called Night "defiantly, refreshingly unhip... daringly Shakespearean; and, famously, the film was booed at Cannes), its star power alone ought to help quell moviegoers' doubts -- surely this much bona fide talent wouldn't sign their names to a total piece of crap, they can be presumed to conclude, forgetting recent groaners like Pearl Harbor, The Mexican and The Brothers Grimm). And the film is sure to garner some praise, however canned and insincere, from the less-rigorous critics out there, like the irrepressible Gene Shalit or the milquetoast Leonard Maltin.

However, all that being said, some buzz is beginning to build over We Own the Night. FOXNews.com has a front-page 'Pop Tarts' story hyping costar Eva Mendes's "no-hold-back" sex scenes with Joaquin Phoenix, and The New York Times recently ran a very flattering portrait of its helmer, James Gray, calling him "an auteur for a neglected New York" and comparing him, favorably, to Quentin Tarantino. The Times concludes that Night is a thriller "reminiscent of The French Connection". (Interestingly, James credits a Times photograph with having inspired the film.)

So, what are we to believe? James acknowledges Night's debt to other familiar films, some classic, others recent (he signed an E-mail recently: "the greatest director of the B-version of ‘The Departed’ of our time"). Is it possible a film widely panned for its unoriginality will be embraced by Middle America? The Departed -- last year's Best Picture -- made over $132 million in a five-month theatrical run. Can We Own the Night rake in even half that amount?

Your thoughts?

I remain, as always...

Nico.

Nico, it seems to me that other than the box-office potential of the film, there is no need of a debate over the question "Is We Own the Night an artistic dud ?".

One thing you totally forgot to mention in your overview is that James Gray is a very rare director (3 films in 13 years), but more importantly a very, very talented one. "Little Odessa" ??? "The Yards" ??? Two beautiful pieces of cinema that were reminders of the best crime dramas of the 70s.
Friends, let me give you my honest opinion : I have yet to see it, but We Own the Night will probably be one of the best US films of the year, period.
Contrary to the popular belief, the film was not desastruously received in Cannes. In fact, French critics praised it as one of the best films of the selection, and one of the most impressive american films of the last few months.

This doesn't mean anything in terms of box-office possibilities, I know. And as you pointed out, Nico, will this film be capable of doing half of what The Departed made ? Of course not. The Departed was Scorsese, Nicholson, DiCaprio, Damon. As great as they are, Gray, Duvall and Phoenix aren't as popular as those.
So if it's lucky, We Own the Night will gross 40, 45 million dollars. But I can't see it doing more.

But for the last few days, I've wanted to integrate We Own in one of my leagues, but still haven't found a way to do so. But in my opinion, for $10, We Own has a lot to offer.

Responding...

...[ I ]t seems to me that other than the box-office potential of the film, there is no need of a debate over the question "Is We Own the Night an artistic dud ?"

[Nodding] Probably true. For that matter, potentially we here, being Fantasy Moguls gamers and not, you know, film producers (that I know of), would be better off ignoring the relative merits or flaws of films altogether, anyway, except as they impact IMDb and other vital statistics. But, I kind of like to debate, discuss and dissect... [Grin]

One thing you totally forgot to mention in your overview is that James Gray is a very rare director (3 films in 13 years), but more importantly a very, very talented one. "Little Odessa" ??? "The Yards" ??? Two beautiful pieces of cinema that were reminders of the best crime dramas of the 70s.

Yeah, I didn't so much forget as decide to ignore Gray's particulars... My postings are pretty lengthy anyway, and I just sort of assumed people either knew Gray's pedigree or were content with whatever information they already had at-hand. But, you're right, of course. Gray's a talent, although I think he'd be well counseled to begin broadening his resume at this point... Like M. Night Shyamalan, he's becoming quite the master of a very specific genre of film, but there are pitfalls to cornering the market in that respect: notably, that the public can all too easily assume you only have one club in your bag; and, entertainment tastes being cyclical and changeable, one day you may find yourself with a fiercely devoted cult following but no significant mainstream fan base to speak of. (Kevin Smith, anyone?)

I also have to admit, I wonder what possible effect We Own the Night will have on that OTHER major period crime drama coming out this year, American Gangster. While certain genres are seemingly endlessly derivative and recyclable, I think we're beginning to see the danger in opening up against too-similar a film; look at The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford's relative obscurity, opening, as it were, in the shadow of 3:10 to Yuma. More and more, I'm beginning to think the one-two punch of Deep Impact and Armageddon was a fluke...

Contrary to the popular belief, the film was not desastruously received in Cannes. In fact, French critics praised it as one of the best films of the selection, and one of the most impressive american films of the last few months.

Interesting... was that story about the booing inaccurate, then, or overblown? It was very widely reported... Politics at work, maybe?

Thanks for your contributions!

I remain, as always...

Nico.

Last May, after Cannes, I talked about the film with a friend of mine who saw We Own the Night at one of the press projections. When I told her I was surprised to read the film was booed, she was surprised and told me that no one booed the film at the projection she was in.
It is true though that the film was booed at some point in another projection, but I clearly remember reading in one french newspaper that the "boos" where totally "misplaced" and incomprehensible.

It is true that James Gray shouldn't let himself trapped into one genre (but the man recently announced that his next film, to be shot very shortly, would be a romantic comedy, who would have thought !?)... But in the case of Gray, I don't think the danger of his box-office potential is at the heart of the case, since neither Little Odessa nor The Yards attracted any US audience when released.

But there is of course a risk of, how could I say, artistic fatigue in revisiting continuously the same genre. But at the same time, the greatest directors are either the ones who are able to make one masterpiece in every genre (Stanley Kubrick, Howard Hawks) or those who are continuously revisiting the same genre, or the same theme at the core of their oeuvre (Wong Kar Wai, Alfred Hitchcock, Jean-Pierre Melville).

If Gray is able to add another great film in the "modern greek tragedy by the way of crime" genre everytime he touches a camera, we'll forgive him for not trying to diversify his cinematographic offerings.
I know I will...

Bless you Michael Bay. Armageddon is a masterpiece.

Tuan, what's this sotry with french booing The Fountain ?
Where did you hear or read that ?? Are you sure of what you're saying ? Aronofsky's film wasn't in any french festival...

As for the booing in Cannes, it's not necessarily the french you know... There are as much foreign journalists, film lovers and professionnals at Cannes than there are french

BUt you know, if we are big contestors, always ready to set up strikes and revolutions [grin], we don't boo films that much. We love films. We watch them religiously. We don't really boo them. Really.

Bless you Michael Bay. Armageddon is a masterpiece.

You got it just right, Tuan, it's those damn italians

How can you mix up Cannes and Venezia ?

I was sure Ratatouille would be a big hit in France. $60M is big tuan. In fact it's pretty huge. In fact I think Rataouille is still in the weekly Top 5 of French Box-office after 10 weeks of release (can you imagine how many Top 5 points that would make lol).

In terms of entries, Ratatouille just passed by 7 million entries last week, which makes it the number 1 film at the french box-office in 2007, way ahead of Spidey, Shrek, Pirates and all those big sequels. It's almost sure to finish number 1 at the end of the year. It should finish between 7.5 and 8 million entries, making it the second best Pixar score in France, right behind Nemo which made a bit more than 8 million.
I'm glad it's such a good film that triumphs at the box-office this year in France.

Yeah, who can forget when Tarantino won for Pulp Fiction, and some (French?) critic called him a bastard when he won.

Or poor Richard Kelly whose Southland Tales was awfulyl booed

But bless those in Cannes who laughed their way through Armageddon

As for The Fountain, it's the kind of film that some loathe and some adore. Personally, I'm with Tuan, it's a beautiful film, maybe a little pretentious, but nevertheless it aspired to be something new, something different, which most modern films don't.

Back to We Own- I think it is decent value for money, in that it will exceed expectations made by FM- should make anywhere between 4-2 Top5 points, an IMDB score abouve 7.5, and about 30 million BO- a nice little earner for $10, me thinks. That said, if tracking looks bad, I might take Dan in Real Life.

I would own it personally because that price range is hard to find something worth your money. Dan In Real Life i think is going to tank. Anways about Pulp Fiction leave it to the french to call Tarintino a bastard and not realize what a great filmaker he is.

Bless you Michael Bay. Armageddon is a masterpiece.

transformers2 wrote:

Anways about Pulp Fiction leave it to the french to call Tarintino a bastard and not realize what a great filmaker he is.

You can be a bastard AND a great filmmaker.

The completely pitiful performance of 'The Heartbreak Kid' has all but assured that the only competition this weekend standing in the way of 'We Own the Night' taking 5 Top 5 is an equally risky but far pricier 'Michael Clayton.'

Everyone can make mistakes. Not choosing 'We Own the Night' will be a mistake that many make this weekend.

numbersix_99 wrote:

Yeah, who can forget when Tarantino won for Pulp Fiction, and some (French?) critic called him a bastard when he won.

Well don't worry about french critics loving Tarantino. They adore him. But the films of his they prefer isn't the usual favorites. For example, one french magazine, "Les Inrockuptibles", known for being merciless when it comes to film reviews, called "Death Proof" (the longer european version) "probably one of the most important american films of the last few years".

numbersix_99 wrote:

Or poor Richard Kelly whose Southland Tales was awfulyl booed

Again, french aren't the ones you should blame first when it comes to booing Kelly's film, as french daily paper "Libération", probably the most cinephile daily paper in France, has put "Southland Tales" on their cover, and wrote 2 whole pages about the film, when they saw it at Cannes in May, calling it the most fascinating film of the Croisette.

The completely pitiful performance of 'The Heartbreak Kid' has all but assured that the only competition this weekend standing in the way of 'We Own the Night' taking 5 Top 5 is an equally risky but far pricier 'Michael Clayton.'

Folks, I think A_Roode's one to something, here.

I'm thinking that next weekend's Top Five will be:

[1] We Own the Night
[2] The Game Plan
[3] Elizabeth: The Golden Age
[4] The Heartbreak Kid
[5] Michael Clayton

...Meaning that:

{A} The Kingdom will spend only two weeks in the Top Five (Combined with the frankly awful showing of the excellent In the Valley of Elah, I think it's pretty much as I suspected... war fatigue. Holders of Grace is Gone, Lions for Lambs, Redacted, and Rendition, stand by.)

{B} Tyler Perry's Why Did I Get Married? is going to tank. I have to say, I'm surprised by that... I've been a big, big supporter of his films these last couple of years, and I thought that, if any of them would break out, it would be this title. Won't happen.

{C} Michael Clayton, while I doubt it can become a blockbuster, is going to be one of the big surprises of the season for most FM players. I know, like, one person who has this film (bernox, in the October "Regulars" league)... Maybe it was the price ($19).

[Sigh] And it's too early to tell for sure, but Across the Universe doesn't look like it'll come close to my hopes for it, either. Nothing's gonna change my world, after all.

I remain, as always...

Nico.

My Studios

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