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What amazes me about stuff like this so much is, you never hear stuff about films like Constantine, or The Matrix, or Mystic River, or will we about Hitman, which, if viewed in a certain light, are probably even more potentially "damaging" to public opinions of Christianity than any of these other titles.

Actually, funny thing about The Matrix Nico, is that from some Christians' POV The Matrix can also be seen as a Christian parable, which is actually a contrary belief to yours. When I was back in high school, there was this Christian group (I'm not Christian, I just went for the free food

), who interpreted The Matrix characters as biblical figures. Neo as Jesus Christ, Morpheus and John the Baptist, etc, etc. When you come to look at it, it could be seen as quite blatant in a way. Neo was "The One", the saviour-see the parallels...

Anywhoo, I really don't think there will be much backlash over The Golden Compass. The Christian minorities doing the backlashing, I think will get smart soon, and realise they're only giving away free publicity (See The Da Vinci Code). TGC's religious backlash will be far, far less than The Da Vinci Code, or even Angels & Demons, which will attract far more controversy than TGC this time next year. Anyway, aren't all the atheist undertones of TGC being removed/downgraded? Besides since I have never read the book, before I heard about it, I wasn't actually aware that TGC had such undertones anyway...

If anyone remembers my train of thought on Compass and its beliefs, I apologize for repeating.

1. 'Wolf, you have no reason to apologize for having a more conservative and slight non PC opinion. I thought one of the benefits of this site was that one was allowed to articulately and nonviolently express his or her opinion without he fear of backlash. It would break my heart if this site watered down to a 'who's hotter?' shallow level of conversation. I may agree with you, I may not- but if we can't express deeper thoughts wtihout girding our loins, I am really in the wrong site.

2. I know I beat this drum hard and often, but one of the big differences between Harry Potter and every other fantasy book series is 'the mom factor'. The is extremely important to kid/ family films Because 'mom' is usually the one who brings the kids. Moms loved reading Harry as much, if not more than their children. Mom's have not read The Golden Compass. And if they had, most would be greatly bothered by such antagonizing themes.

3. Everyone who has said this has a point- the protesting Christians probably should be speaking up more about movies like Saw, but I am glad that they don't. Every once in a while, some movie that is raw and rough has an amazing reverse lesson to it (Fight Club), usually addressing how men fit in a world that doesn't fight fair. The last thing I want is a group of holy rolling women coming in and neutering yet another thing that I sometimes like a little more raw and blunt.

The reason they stood and made noise is quite selfishly simple. The movie was going to effect them or thier family, and it wasn't 'proper enough'. Do not dismiss this group, because they have control over who will make this movie a hit- their children.

4. I know it may seem like a long time ago, but Da Vinci Code was nowhere the hit people projected it to be, at least in the US. Sure, it did gross slightly over 200 mil in the US, but it didn't have near the repeat value that it was supposed to. One of the reasons it was the hit that it was is because of Europe, which is notoriously agnostic, and anti-Catholic.

5. I Pullman said what he did about this series, it will be a vital cog in the logic of the book. To remove it would be to remove one of the stories vital organs, either neutering it or killing it. If you are going to adapt a story to another medium, either have the guts to do it right or don't do it at all. And this is coming from someone who hopes nothing but ill for the film.

jameydunne
-i will be gone for five days for an all expense paid trip to Puerto Rico, so I am not stating and running as much as stating, relaxing for five days, and then replying.

Passion of the Christ grossed over 600 million dollars for creating so much controversy around supposed anti-semitism and probably for centering around religion. I suggest that the opposite will happen in this case, but certainly it won't gross nearly as well but I see around 200 million gross.

jameydunne wrote:

It would break my heart if this site watered down to a 'who's hotter?' shallow level of conversation.

"Oh-my-God, JC is sooo totally hotter than Satan....i mean, like, he's sooo hot!!!! And Tiffany goes, "But no....but....", and I was like duhh!!!!"

*GRIN* sorry if i offended anyone, but i just had to do that....

man, i had *zero* interest in seeing this film to begin with...... and, now, after reading about this little controversy, i somehow have even LESS interest

Wow, I was only able to scan through this debate, but what a good one.

That's a brave statement regarding Roman Polanski- is it true he lured the girl with full intent, or did she consent? I know it's still statutory rape, but I think there's a huge distance between consentual sex with an underage person and intentional rape of someone unwilling. Anyway, the only thing I can say Nico is that Hollywood probably does some of the most degrading and horrible things you can imagine (I'm getting images of Less Than Zero), but you puting your moeny into their pockets. Hell, you presidents drop bombs (well, sanction them) on people- does that mean you're going to leave the US? I don't see you packing

Jst playing Devil's Advocate.

As for Wolf's opinion. I do see your point, but you do realise, as nico said, that the Western World (and most of the rest of the world)is at war with Christianity. I mean, do you boycott South Park and The Simpsons as well, Wolf? I thought the positive aspect of Christianity was acceptance- but does that not extend to accept the differing beliefs of others?

I'd understand your stance if the profits of The Golden Compass were going towards the Anti-Christianity Organisation, but it's not. It's not even THAT dogmatic, as you can interpret the story as pure fantasy if you want, as it does deal with parallel universes. Do I see The Golden Comapss as blatnetly anti-Christian? Only as much as I see Narnia as an advert for the Christians of the World- it uses some of the myth and lessons, but it's not definitively pro-Christian. I am pretty much against Christianity in my personal beliefs (don't worry Nico, Wolf, and Becs, I still like you!), but I'm not going to boycott the films because of that.

Just my two cents

numbersix_99 wrote:

I mean, do you boycott South Park and The Simpsons as well, Wolf?

No, but nor do I watch them, though that is more a matter of them not being my personal choice in TV shows.

numbersix_99 wrote:

I thought the positive aspect of Christianity was acceptance- but does that not extend to accept the differing beliefs of others?

Yes, it is. And that is where a lot of the Christian world has gone wrong, and where, I'm assuming, becs and Nico's animosity towards "religious nuts" comes in. Heck, that is, in large part, why Pullman wrote these books. But tolerance, and acceptance, do not mean affirmation. There is a line, and some of us draw that line sooner than others, some may not draw it at all, claiming Christianity is 100% compatible with other religions. It's extremely difficult finding a balance.

I realize my views may not be PC, and that Nico, becs, and probably others take fault with my logic: "If you're going to boycott this, why not this too, or this." Well, maybe I'm not smart enough to apply this logic properly, but I do see this opportunity to stand up for what I perceive as an attack on my faith. And I'm going to take it, even if there are a dozen others out there more worthy, this is the one I see and this is the one I'm going to deal with right now.

I wasn't "taking issue" with anything you had to say Azure, you are just as entitled to have your say as I am, and I felt the need to try and show you a view outside your own shoes.
There is nothing wrong with taking offense at attacks on your faith, race, sex, etc. But as I was trying to get across through my viewpoints, when you pick and choose what to be offended by, just based on what is conveniently in front of you at the time - it will damage your credibility. Thats not my opinion its the cold hard reality, and it becomes a personal concern to me, when Christians regularly employ this behavior. Its where stereotypes come from and we all know it.
But then, I tend to be very mechanical and think of things in terms of black and white (I'm really and truly not capable of thinking empathetically) so for myself I simply can't relate - in my mind its like you are boycotting a movie because it has a sex scene, but then go to see another movie that has one but its artistic or "tasteful", to me a sex scene is a sex scene, period, boycott them all or none. So regardless, I logically understand what your intention is and how you rationalize it, but I can't empathize or relate to it.

AzureWolf wrote:

No, but nor do I watch them, though that is more a matter of them not being my personal choice in TV shows.

You're missing out.

AzureWolf wrote:

And I'm going to take it, even if there are a dozen others out there more worthy, this is the one I see and this is the one I'm going to deal with right now.

You're missing out again. Golden Compass will rule. I hope a lot of Christians get slaughtered in it.

What I learnt from watching Narnia:

God is a lion.

I'm not the most religious person I know but I still consider myself a pretty decent christian.

And as a christian I say this. A persons religous beliefs should not reflect the point of a movie. I think its retarted to put off your own beliefs, especially in a kids movie. That goes for Narnia too.
Kids go to movies for the enjoyment. They don't care about all that subliminal crap. The parents do. And parents are douchebags. Most anyways.

Anyways. That being said. When I go watch movies I really don't care what the writer/director/producer/or whoevers elses beliefs are. I want to see a good enjoyable movie.

And when my theater gets golden compass(hopefully) I intend to enjoy the shit out of it. Cause the last trailer I saw for it makes it looks incredibly bad A for a pg-13 movie.
I liked Narnia. But this looks to be much better.
Its got a Talking A$$ kicking Polar Bear for crying out loud.

RETARD ALERT!
Update on Compass situation.
We had a lady come in and buy a large drink. But when she saw it was a Golden Compass promo Cup she threw a BF and said she refused to support an Atheist. She walked away with a medium. For Shame her Biggist attitude landed her a smaller drink. I hope she faints from cotton mouth. Just not in our building.

Wow, just wow! Are people that uptight? Seriously? There are wars being fought and people starving and homeless all over the world and someone is going to complain about their soda cup because it is promoting a F*CKING FICTIONAL MOVIE!?!?!?!? Those are the people tuan should be advocating the death penalty for, I'd wholeheartedly join in that fight.

cRAzY wrote:

RETARD ALERT!
Update on Compass situation.
We had a lady come in and buy a large drink. But when she saw it was a Golden Compass promo Cup she threw a BF and said she refused to support an Atheist. She walked away with a medium. For Shame her Biggist attitude landed her a smaller drink. I hope she faints from cotton mouth. Just not in our building.

Haha that's pretty funny. Funny how she bought a smaller size. If she was sticking to her word, she wouldn't have bought the drink at all. Hey, if a lady's gotta drink, a lady's gotta drink!

No no, this lady can live. She is hilarious.

RETARD ALERT PART DEUX!!
Update on Montreal Retard Situation

Montreal's Chapter of a select group of very gifted ladies

(that was dripping with sarcasm, if you didn't catch it

is organizing a convention to protest the release of the Golden Compass here.

Movie theater owners have responded in the press that these women are "so far backward in their thinking and beliefs that they redefine the term retarded".

And the saddest part is that I'm not kidding.... Honestly, these people with their 'backlash' have pissed off so many people that their backlash is receiving its own backlash....

This world is filled with all kinds of points of view. If you just limit yourself to your own insular view on the world then you miss out on so much.

From what I can tell, Pullman's main gripe with religion (not just Christianity) is that more wars, more people, more horrible things have been done in the name of religion than any other single thing in the history of mankind...

He even admits that his atheism might simply be agnosticsm becaue he just does not know. At least he is thinking about it which cannot be a bad thing. Right?

Fact: Mother Theresa spent many years doubting the existence of a God, but kept it to herself. In the end, she came around to full belief--not just a forced on belief like so many. Two cents...

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