My Studios

Yeah..... boring. There are many parts of the world that is not so bright so to watch something as boring and even crap as The Godfather is just damaging and depressing when one thinks about it. Something like Schindler's List, as sad and depressing as that movie is, the ending is so wonderful and moving that it actually inspires hope in all of us. Learn from history's terrible past and be better for it. The Godfather, a so-called 'classic' doesn't do anything for me. It has no worth except for film buffs to watch it and watch it's craft, as I must admit, technically, when it comes to writing, directing, acting and cinematography it's pretty damn excellent, but as something more than that, it's pretty crap. That's why I think The Godfather is one of the biggest and most overrated turds in the history of cinema. Even bigger than Bono. The world needs more movies like The Dark Knight, a movie so entertaining and great that you just can't help but smile when you think about it.

Tuan, for the most part, I am in complete agreement with you. The Godfather does very little for me as well. It is so forgettable. It is way too long. People talk about "Why have the Hong Kong scene in TDK?" Well like you said, because we get to watch batman jump off a building and glide through the Hong Kong Skyline, crash through a window of a skyscraper and kick ass. That's why. Is it necessary for the story? Probably not. Is it fun to watch? Hell yes. I think that frisky and 6 need to get the sticks out of their asses and remember that movies are supposed to be fun.

To complain about something as trivial as Lucious Fox is just absurd. Seriously guys? Thats what made you think this movie wasn't a classic? Because Morgan Freeman, possibly the greatest actor ever was given a small role that didn't need to be in the movie? Wow, I guess you are right, the butler should be able to build armor and batmobile's. That makes sense. Lets not have a technical expert behind that. Alfred is Bruce Wayne's guide. His mentor. The person he can trust more than anyone to offer him advice and to keep his secret. Lucious is a like Batman's Q. They are not the same.

I can't even possibly begin to understand why something should have to wait to be on such a list. that makes absolutely no god damn sense to me. So basically you are trying to tell me you look at films from the standpoint of "well this can only be great 5 years from now?" So I guess we should just not bother going to the movies and just keep renting the godfather again. Just because a movie comes out in the year 2008 does not make it any less of a classic than any other film. If the film is of such a high quality and you get such a joy out of watching it, why do we have to wait 5 years to recognize its greatness. The fact that you guys believe you know what makes a film great and you know what should or shouldn't be included in a film just further proves that you watch movies as film snobs. You should be able to acknowledge that other people have different tastes from you. A ton of people love the Godfather. And now a ton of people will love The Dark Knight. Don't try and say the movie doesn't deserve its rightful place on a list that is generated by mostly my generation, the kids who grew up with the internet (hey, it is the internet movie database). If anything you should be encouraged that films such as the Godfathers and Cuckoo's nest still reside so high and haven't been completely overrun. To me, I get so much more enjoyment out of watching The Dark Knight than I ever will get out of watching the Godfather. It has a much more appealing story to me. Like tuan mentioned, I felt nothing for the characters in the godfather. I sat there just waiting for it to pick up and it never really does. Godfather 2 is even worse at this.

The main point is that I would never bitch about the Godfather being at the top of the list. I understand that it is recognized by many as the greatest film ever made. It has its votes so let it be there. But why should you complain that The Dark Knight is there? Its not like the system was rigged so it could be placed there. In my opinion, The Dark Knight is one of the 2 best movies I have ever seen. A perfect 10. So when I see it up there, it makes me happy to know that it is getting the recognition it deserves, rather than just always seeing movies like the Godfather and Godfather 2, which like tuan said, just leave you depressed. Do you actual find enjoyment out of that? I'd rather watch Batman, but that's just me personally.

What got me was when "the only top 10 movies besides TDK that are relevent now are Pulp Fiction and the Shawshank Redemption" was said. In fact, every movie on that list is relevent or people younger than 18 and from 18-30 wouldn't vote for it. The top films MUST hit this catagory.

Sometimes the viewer is bad at watching certain movies and then calls those movies bad. It's all about your personal expectations based on what a movie promises to be. I think you shouldn't, for example, blame The Godfather for lack of comedy or blame The Dark Knight for lack of character development.

I think The Dark Knight deserves to be among the top movies if it satisfies it's audience in such a way that it exceeds the already incredibly high expectations that a lot of people had for this movie.

It is about perspective. The movie-going audience is an A.D.D. enriched crowd who proclaim with each new summer release that it is the greatest thing they've ever seen before consigning the previous week's champ to the dustbin of time and memory. I'm exaggerating, but not by much. Is a film less great because it had five years? No, and that's a ridiculous assertion. What a wait period offers is sobriety. It offers time, tempered reflection and the weight of the public consciousness. I think 'The Dark Knight' is a great movie and although I enjoyed the Hong Kong scene, frisky and numbersix have valid beefs. Personally, I think it tampers with the pacing of the movie. Awesome to watch and ultimately not fatal to the movie, but a ten-minute digression that Lucius could have summed up later with "I have a new twist on the sonar you might be interested in..." and the movie wouldn't have suffered from the absence. It might even have been better since we'd have gotten back to seeing Heath sooner -- although perhaps having the Hong Kong scene included does make sense if you think of the annoyance and impatience in the audience to get back to seeing what Mister Ledger is up to.

Having 'The Dark Knight' as the top film on your personal list is terrific and I understand why some would put it there -- hey, Aesthetics is a very subjective thing. I'm just saddened that after three days, 'The Dark Knight' is by landslide the greatest film ever made. Three days. It might still be there in 5 years. I'll bet anyone it'll still be in the top 25. If a film is great it'll go to the top and stay there with time being no barrier to it's greatness or to how strongly we cherish and love it. 'The Godfather' and other classic films on the iMDb top 250 aren't in unassailable castles. I'm more inclined to think that even if you or I don't like them though, maybe they deserve a little credit for being widely regarded as the best films ever made for, in some cases, 60 or more years. Despite Transformers2 (a friend who takes my teasing in good cheer), 'Casablanca' will still be talked about in another 60 years. Most of us will probably be gone by then, but it sure would be interesting to see if 'The Dark Knight' is too.

Not to pick on Geezer, but he wrote something which gave me pause: "movies are supposed to be fun." I bring this up only to add my personal qualifier to his remarks. There was a time where he and I would be exchanging high fives at his remark (say something nice about '300' and we will). I like if films are fun because I want to be entertained but as I've gotten older I find I want to be enlightened or lifted up too. Great films give me insight into how a character deals with the world and everything it throws at him. Sometimes they wither away like Tommy Lee Jones in 'No Country for Old Men.' Sometimes they're alone and empty in hollow victories like Daniel Day-Lewis in 'There Will be Blood.' I want to see how they approach life and deal with curves in the road. I want to learn something about them and then maybe something about myself for how I react to what they've done.

Returning to 'The Godfather' I ask myself why does it work for me? It works because it is about a man who comes from an evil world who wants out and his father -- who has the power -- wants to keep him out too. The tragedy comes in watching his corruption and inescapable destiny. His fall is magnificent, permanent and costs more than he can afford to pay. But I'll concede that the lack of car chases, or at least the lack of cars who can transform into giant ass-kicking robots is prohibitive.

geezer9687 wrote:

I can't even possibly begin to understand why something should have to wait to be on such a list. that makes absolutely no god damn sense to me. So basically you are trying to tell me you look at films from the standpoint of "well this can only be great 5 years from now?" So I guess we should just not bother going to the movies and just keep renting the godfather again. Just because a movie comes out in the year 2008 does not make it any less of a classic than any other film. If the film is of such a high quality and you get such a joy out of watching it, why do we have to wait 5 years to recognize its greatness. The fact that you guys believe you know what makes a film great and you know what should or shouldn't be included in a film just further proves that you watch movies as film snobs. You should be able to acknowledge that other people have different tastes from you. A ton of people love the Godfather. And now a ton of people will love The Dark Knight. Don't try and say the movie doesn't deserve its rightful place on a list that is generated by mostly my generation, the kids who grew up with the internet (hey, it is the internet movie database).

Thank you, geez. That's exactly what I want to say. Are you guys saying that movies aren't great unless their old? And I don't buy that whole thing about having to wait to see if a movie is a masterpiece. I can watch a movie one time and know exactly what I think of it, and if I watch it again tomorrow that opinion won't change. Are you saying No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, The Departed and Ratatouille shouldn't be on the list?

J.I. wrote:

geezer9687 wrote:

I can't even possibly begin to understand why something should have to wait to be on such a list. that makes absolutely no god damn sense to me. So basically you are trying to tell me you look at films from the standpoint of "well this can only be great 5 years from now?" So I guess we should just not bother going to the movies and just keep renting the godfather again. Just because a movie comes out in the year 2008 does not make it any less of a classic than any other film. If the film is of such a high quality and you get such a joy out of watching it, why do we have to wait 5 years to recognize its greatness. The fact that you guys believe you know what makes a film great and you know what should or shouldn't be included in a film just further proves that you watch movies as film snobs. You should be able to acknowledge that other people have different tastes from you. A ton of people love the Godfather. And now a ton of people will love The Dark Knight. Don't try and say the movie doesn't deserve its rightful place on a list that is generated by mostly my generation, the kids who grew up with the internet (hey, it is the internet movie database).
Thank you, geez. That's exactly what I want to say. Are you guys saying that movies aren't great unless their old? And I don't buy that whole thing about having to wait to see if a movie is a masterpiece. I can watch a movie one time and know exactly what I think of it, and if I watch it again tomorrow that opinion won't change. Are you saying No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, The Departed and Ratatouille shouldn't be on the list?

You can easily see if a movie is a masterpiece or not on the first viewing, but you'll have to wait years before you can say that it is one of the best movies of all time. If The Dark Knight still has a 9.7 rating with over 200.000 votes, it deserves to be on top.

And multiple viewing can really change how you feel about a movie, especially if you watch it after several years have gone by.

Donte77 wrote:

Damn Q, you were one of my boys but I have to disagree with you here. I like Godfather but I wouldn't put it on my top 50, but top 100 sure. Cuckoo's Nest on the other hand is one of the perfect movies ever. I watch it a few times a year and it always moves me. How can a movie not be relevant anymore?? Human emotions are always going to be relevant as long as there are humans. Cuckoo's Nest explores those emotions; from isolation and lonliness to rebellion against authority to finding friendship in the unlikeliest place. The movie (and the book holy shit the book) is a work of art with the deranged human mind as the medium.
Some movies, or books, or any type of work of art will never become irrelevant. Art is intrinsic to the human soul, nature, mind, whatever you call it.

You misunderstood my point Donte, I am not saying that the Godfather isn't a great movie, because it is. What I am saying is that it is extremely overrated, people are scared to admit they didn't like the Godfather or that is overrated because they don't want to have a horse head put in their bed. The same goes with the Godfather 2. Its as if you tell a normal person (and by that I mean someone who watches movies, but really doesn't know about them) that you didn't like those movies they flip out. The Godfather has been hyped as "the greatest movie ever made" for so long that people will say it is amazing even if they recognize flaws or didn't like it. And I guarantee you most casual movie fans that watch movies had absolutely no idea what was going on in the Godfather 2 (because it is confusing if you just see it one time, at least I had a hell of a time with) and yet they will stay say the loved it because everyone is telling them they should.

Is the same thing happening with TDK? I don't know yet, it is too early to tell, but what I can tell you is that after the second time I saw it I thought it was even better. I got to pay a lot more attention to the details the second go around and all I can say is that this movie is stunning in every respect. And anyone that says this movie doesn't have character development is either completely blind, shouldn't be allowed in a movie theater, or is just completely ignorant. Batman evolves in leaps and bounds in this movie. So does Gordon. I don't even need to mention Dent/Two Face. The Jokers personality grows and grows the more we get to see of him. Even Rachel and Lucius grow as characters in this movie.

geezer9687 wrote:

People talk about "Why have the Hong Kong scene in TDK?" Well like you said, because we get to watch batman jump off a building and glide through the Hong Kong Skyline, crash through a window of a skyscraper and kick ass. That's why. Is it necessary for the story? Probably not. Is it fun to watch? Hell yes. I think that frisky and 6 need to get the sticks out of their asses and remember that movies are supposed to be fun.

Some movies are supposed to be fun, yes. And at times TDK is. You forget that I actually like the movie. However, I didn't particularly find the Hong Kong scene kick ass. When the scene is set up by Fox and Wayne explaining how all the devices work, and then the HK scene just plays out exactly how we expect, there's nothing kick ass about it.

To complain about something as trivial as Lucious Fox is just absurd. Seriously guys? Thats what made you think this movie wasn't a classic? Because Morgan Freeman, possibly the greatest actor ever was given a small role that didn't need to be in the movie? Wow, I guess you are right, the butler should be able to build armor and batmobile's. That makes sense. Lets not have a technical expert behind that. Alfred is Bruce Wayne's guide. His mentor. The person he can trust more than anyone to offer him advice and to keep his secret. Lucious is a like Batman's Q. They are not the same.

Obviously they are different people. But the relate to Wayne's character in the same way. I never said they should have a character arc. But both act as a moral stance that help Wayne tow the line in terms of what's right and not. I think that Fox, or any technical expert, was superfluous in the film, regardless of Freeman's talents.

The reason why TDK isn't one of my favourite films of all time is due to a couple of reasons, added together. Fox is one, Hong Kong is another. Rachel is a third... she's rather weak and nondescript, more like a tool for plot progression. Some of the overall pacing is off.

I think while it is possible to call a film a masterpiece over one viewing, I, like others, are wondering if people are just buying into a (mostly justified) hype for TDK- like with Iron Man, and it's ridiculous 8-plus score (yes, it's very entertaining, but it's not that good). I agree with Roode, I think people need to sit back and consider what they sw for a while, at least before something is labelled a classic or whatnot.

"The Dark Knight". While the hype continues, I have already forgotten it much less think it is the best film of the decade. Others will too in due time.

When I was thirteen, I bought the Godfather trilogy used at a GameStop for $40 in store credit. Shortly after, I watched The Godfather Part II. That film became my all-time favorite film. When school came back in session and people would ask me my favorite film, I'd say this film. But the then-Napoleon Dynamite/Mean Girls crazed age group would dismiss this and even make fun of me over it. Dumb fucks.

You're alright Buscemi.

I honestly think that people are so desensitized today, that if there truly is the BEST film of all time (doesn't necessarily have to be TDK), they wouldn't know it if it jumped up and bit them.

Masterpieces can still be made.

I wish that studios stopped worrying about what their making in the first weekend and just make good stuff. But I am living in a world where I don't matter.

You guys are acting like we are talking about Transformers or 300 here. TDK and Iron Man were both breakouts because they were more than just a popcorn flick - though that was what we went in expecting, and that was their primary aspect. If you want to truly break down what is the greatest film of all time, isn't it more likely to be some old silent film than The Godfather? What about the first film ever made? Just because something has quality, doesn't mean it is the best and will remain the best for every generation. As far as I'm concerned I am glad to see new blood in the upper echelons of the IMDB list.
TDK in 3 days has inspired 50% of the votes that other movies up there have received in the life of IMDB (TDK - 46,000, The good the bad and the ugly - 96,000), is that alone not a point for it to be taken seriously? If your take on this is serious, then what is Star Wars doing at #9? Raiders of the Lost Ark at #17? Two of the LOTR films in the top 25???? Of those TDK is vastly more worthy of a lofty spot, those were just popcorn blockbusters, TDK is greek tragedy pointing the finger of blame at us as the audience.

I don't know if I would call those films just popcorn blockbusters, that is someplace I definitely don't want to go Becs. Those are all great films.

I will say this about TDK though, I was reading user reviews on yahoo and every person (literally every single one, I promise) who didn't give it a A- or better had some ignorant comment in it, like "why didn't Batman just kill the Joker?" which just shows you they have no business rating a Batman movie. And also the one person I have found so far that gave it an F on yahoo rated Definitely Maybe and Failure to Launch higher than TDK and Children of Men. Yes you read that correctly. So when people like that are giving it negative reviews it is kind of hard to take them seriously. The same thing could also be happening with the positive reviews I don't know (I didn't read them)

Agreed best not to go there, no arguing all I I am trying to make the point on is that, those are both standout films in their genre, but neither holds a candle to The Dark Knight. Several people are acting like TDK IS just some mindless actionfest, sure it has that aspect, but its not the bulk of the film.

My Studios

ADVICE & ANALYSIS: