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BarcaRulz
Executive Producer

Joined: May 13, 2007 4:05 PM
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friskytiger81 wrote:
I prefer "Batman Begins" to this one. Scenes with Ledger make the film, but unfortunately for Bale, he has no scenes that even compare to Ledger's. This was Ledger's film, and considering this a Batman film, I had a problem with that. Maybe if I knew there was a possibility that Joker was going to reappear, but obviously that can't happen.

The bank robbery scene was underwhelming for the intro to Joker. I liked how they arrived on the rooftop, but there was nothing spectacular or particularly menacing about Joker from his first scene. I was expecting something like "Heat" and I got "Set It Off". Yeah, agreed, William Fichtner as the shotgun manager was odd.

I think what people are thinking off was a press conference for Harvey Dent intercut with chasing down Batman. You see no body or casket, but you see Gordon in front of a podium and a large pic of Dent behind him. I didn't get the impression that it was a funeral so much as a press conference.

Best part: I really enjoyed the "face-off" in front of the Sears Tower when Batman wrangles the 18-wheeler and turns it on end. I wished it was a little bit longer, but the pacing in that scene is well-done.

All-in-all, I think the film is a bit too frenetic for me. There's very little touched upon about Batman - until the very end. I'm looking forward to another film, but this is in no ways perfect. Watch again and let the imperfections present themselves.

My grade: B

Favorite of the year thusfar: "In Bruges" 


That was my favorite as well, until i saw TDK that is.

And i don't get why people think it was a press conference for Harvey Dent. About what exactly? He fell and he was pretty much dead at the end. I would love Eckhart to return because he was great, but i don't want him to come back from the dead or 'fake-his-death' no matter how cool it has the potential to be.

There should definitely be some female force in the third one. With Rachel now gone there needs to be another female role, and i think Catwoman is the one they will go with.

PS: did anyone else love the 'false advertising' in the trailer when Dent is screaming "NO"? I thought he was screaming that because he was going to get burned, i loved how it turned out to be because he found out Batman came to the wrong place. Fantastic movie moment.
numbersix_99
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Joined: Mar 31, 2007 3:52 AM
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Frisky, why did you prefer Batman Begins? For me, that was a half decent idea riddled by absurdities which would only make sense if the film portrayed its characters with a similar manner (seriously, this "genius" guardian of hyper-capitalism and corruption decided to bring down a city by filling the water supply with a crazy-gas and then stealing a bomb that turns water into steam?? Talk about beating around the bush...).

Sure, it focuses on Batman more, but that's because it's an origin story. Batman can only become a side role from then on. It's always about the villains. That said, I think the film could have spent more time on Batman's reaction to Rachel's demise, and less time on pointless Hong Kong action scenes.

I liked the opening robbery scene. It showed Joker enacting his "mentality" at a small scale, turning people against each other, etc. If it start big and overblown it would have exhausted the viewers at an early stage.
Quake317
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Joined: May 6, 2007 1:21 PM
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Ok this was THE Batman movie everyone was waiting for that actually knows anything about comics.

You didn't learn anything about Batman? That is a huge crock of bullshit, you learned a lot about Batman in this film. He knew he had to become The Dark Knight (bad pun I know but its true) and the movie deals with him wrestling with that fact and how he handles it. The fact that he decided to save Harvey Dent over Rachael says it all. I thought it was brilliant. The only ones ignorant enough to say you don't learn anything about Batman in this movie are the ones that don't know anything about him or the Batman mythos. Seriously all these critics need to try and do some research before they write reviews on a movie like this.

As for the Joker, this is the Joker from Killing Joke, and all those other masterpieces. He creates utter and complete chaos in the comics and that is what he did in the movie. He has no rhyme or reason to why he does it, he does it just to do it, because he gets bored and he wants to have some fun.

And people that its too dark are also ignorant. Not only was this the closest portrayal to what the comics are actually like, but the comics are actually WAY more grim than this movie.

It just irritates me that people who have no business reviewing a Batman movie get to do so.
Alyson
Executive Producer

Joined: May 14, 2007 4:14 PM
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Amazing. Simply amazing. I love when you expect great things from a movie and it goes above and beyond.

Heath was brilliant, as everyone has already stated, the boat scene was epic and amazingly done, dialogue was great and well executed. I loved it from beginning to end - any time I found something to nitpick at it was immediately blown out of my head by the next event in the film. Casting for this film was amazing and I felt that it easily eclipsed Batman Begins (mostly due to the lack of katie holmes -- maggie is a WAY better Rachel).

One thing that really bothered me though: the mayor's eyeliner

geezer9687
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Joined: Jun 5, 2007 10:45 PM
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Harvey Dent is DEAD. I don't see how this is being questioned. They were talking about how Harvey WAS the hero that Gotham needed, and they needed to stick with that theory, which is why Batman had to take the fall. Why would they have a giant picture of Dent in the background if it was "just a press conference." He died. They didn't want his legacy to be left behind as a murderous corrupt man, which is the whole point of the end of the film. They said it would cause Gotham to lose hope. If they thought Harvey was still alive, don't you think this would have played out differently. I will be terribly disappointed if they "bring back the dead" in the third one. It will be too ridiculous. It was a funeral. I am surprised they went this way, but it still works very well. I just expected Two-Face to be the focus of the next film. Oh well. I can't wait to see where they take it, even though I can't see it surpassing this masterpiece.
Quake317
Art Director

Joined: May 6, 2007 1:21 PM
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Touche geezer, well put. They didn't want the Joker to win.

In the third one I want to see some villains you would never think of seeing in a Batman movie, I really want Nolan to take a huge chance because I think he can pull it off. I want to see Bane (I know we saw him in Batman and Robin, but who really counts that movie?) Hush would be really really interesting to see. Red Hood would be really interesting, although you couldn't have him now that you dont have the Joker. Maybe the Holiday Killer, I don't know, all I know is that I really want them to take a chance with the 3rd one.
Tonberry3001
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Joined: Mar 30, 2007 11:35 PM
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AMAZING film...Absolutely blew me away. As for a sequel, do you think there is any chance of Nolan making a movie version of the Dark Knight Returns? They would have to take out the chapter on Two Face and possibly the one on the Joker as well, but I would love to see his treatment on it. Obviously it would need changes, but just seeing the fight with Superman at the end of the movie would be epic.
friskytiger81
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Joined: Mar 30, 2007 9:26 PM
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numbersix_99 wrote:
Frisky, why did you prefer Batman Begins? For me, that was a half decent idea riddled by absurdities which would only make sense if the film portrayed its characters with a similar manner (seriously, this "genius" guardian of hyper-capitalism and corruption decided to bring down a city by filling the water supply with a crazy-gas and then stealing a bomb that turns water into steam?? Talk about beating around the bush...).

Sure, it focuses on Batman more, but that's because it's an origin story. Batman can only become a side role from then on. It's always about the villains. That said, I think the film could have spent more time on Batman's reaction to Rachel's demise, and less time on pointless Hong Kong action scenes.

I liked the opening robbery scene. It showed Joker enacting his "mentality" at a small scale, turning people against each other, etc. If it start big and overblown it would have exhausted the viewers at an early stage.  


To answer your question, I preferred the first one because it is an origin story. I thought Nolan almost perfectly explored the intentions and dark matter from Wayne's past. Yes, I think the involvement with the water supply was as hokey as it was unoriginal, but I'm mainly talking the first two-thirds of "Batman Begins" is what I cherished. I'm not too keen on the last third.

As far as "TDK", I loved Joker in it, he was amazing, but Jonathon and Chris Nolan need to recognize their hero more. I understand the premise of this one and understanding that the city needed a hero's face, showing the great sacrifice and humility of Wayne as Batman, but I don't see that in his character. For all the "juicy" character parts Joker had, Wayne has maybe one. Maybe. Christian Bale can be a top-notch actor, but this doesn't showcase that at all. I would have loved more sparring between Joker and the Batman.

Some of the action sequences (i.e. Hong Kong, finding the Joker in the building through sonar eyes and the subsequent fights) I thought were too erratic. The cutting is off and it's shot in too many CUs to really understand what's going on. Considering that Batman is leaping through the building and tackling henchmen and saving clown-faced hostages from SWAT members, I would have liked to have seen it a little more than from what they were covering it.

All-in-all, there were some sequences that were flat out amazing. I do wish they some shots were held on the Joker to truly obtain his darkness. But, that's a wish perhaps. Good sequel, I just wish there was a little more Batman.
Alyson
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Joined: May 14, 2007 4:14 PM
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Tonberry3001 wrote:
AMAZING film...Absolutely blew me away. As for a sequel, do you think there is any chance of Nolan making a movie version of the Dark Knight Returns? They would have to take out the chapter on Two Face and possibly the one on the Joker as well, but I would love to see his treatment on it. Obviously it would need changes, but just seeing the fight with Superman at the end of the movie would be epic. 


Nolan and Miller - that would be ridiculously awesome I am thinking. But I think it would be a difficult movie to make and market.
becs
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Joined: Jul 17, 2007 3:09 PM
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Okay, lets just put this to rest. It was absolutely a funeral, it was the exact same setting as the original commissioner's funeral (where the Mayor was shot at and Gordon faked his death). Whether it was real or not does remain to question - After all Batman basically told Gordon to cover things up to do with Two-Face, how better than faking his death? Two faked deaths in one movie does seem seem a bit unlikely.

Now that Nolan has done an origins story and reinvented 2 villains that cause their previous iterations to pale in comparison, I would love to see him introduce the world to some new villains we have not seen on film before in his third outing.
JackO
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Joined: Sep 4, 2007 7:14 PM
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Now I have to see it again! I'm pretty sure that we can pronounce Harvey Dent DOA, but what about Two Face. One of the themes of the previous film was the masks that people wore to hide their true identity. So, to us, Harvey Dent, the White Knight, is dead, but to everyone else, Two Face is alive. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.
numbersix_99
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friskytiger81 wrote:


To answer your question, I preferred the first one because it is an origin story. I thought Nolan almost perfectly explored the intentions and dark matter from Wayne's past. Yes, I think the involvement with the water supply was as hokey as it was unoriginal, but I'm mainly talking the first two-thirds of "Batman Begins" is what I cherished. I'm not too keen on the last third.

As far as "TDK", I loved Joker in it, he was amazing, but Jonathon and Chris Nolan need to recognize their hero more. I understand the premise of this one and understanding that the city needed a hero's face, showing the great sacrifice and humility of Wayne as Batman, but I don't see that in his character. For all the "juicy" character parts Joker had, Wayne has maybe one. Maybe. Christian Bale can be a top-notch actor, but this doesn't showcase that at all. I would have loved more sparring between Joker and the Batman.

Some of the action sequences (i.e. Hong Kong, finding the Joker in the building through sonar eyes and the subsequent fights) I thought were too erratic. The cutting is off and it's shot in too many CUs to really understand what's going on. Considering that Batman is leaping through the building and tackling henchmen and saving clown-faced hostages from SWAT members, I would have liked to have seen it a little more than from what they were covering it.

All-in-all, there were some sequences that were flat out amazing. I do wish they some shots were held on the Joker to truly obtain his darkness. But, that's a wish perhaps. Good sequel, I just wish there was a little more Batman. 


Here's another reason why I didn't like Batman Begins- if it's an origin story, it gives too much origin. Batman is able to deal with his parents' killer in that film. for me, I always felt as if resolving this issue was to make a mockery of Batman. I think Batman's motivation is to always avenge his parents, but without knowing who it was. His parents' killer just embodies the world in which he lives, the world in which he battles with, but has no identifiable features. To have Wayne resolve it in Batman Begins doesn't make psychological sense to create a Batman persona, but oh well.

I agree with your point about the erraticism of the action sequences. The Joker decoy sequences was a bit difficult to follow.
RedRaider
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Joined: May 9, 2008 7:53 AM
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I would like to throw in my two cents on TDK. Please no hate mail or death threats

This was a great movie but it was not the jaw-dropping mind-blowing experience that I was hoping for. It was the best movie I have seen this year but for the people who having gone absolutely nuts for it, sorry I'm not feeling it.

Secondly, Heath Ledger gave the best portrayal of the Joker there has ever been captured on film in all of his disturbed and demented glory. But I don't think his performance is Oscar-worthy. If he is nominated, it will be because of his death and not his performance.

The best scenes in my opinion were the disappearing pencil trick and Nurse Joker and the exploding hospital.

Lastly someone had said that Batman decided to save Harvey instead of Rachel. I don't think this is true. He said he was going to save her and went to the address the Joker said she was at, only to find Harvey there.
The Joker set him up. I believe (or maybe it is wishful thinking) the detonators on the ferrys were for their own boats, not the other one. Whoever decided to blow up the other ferry would have actually blown up themselves. That's what the Joker would have done just for the fun of it.

Great film, I give it 9 out of 10. This is my opinion, take it for what it is worth.
becs
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RedRaider wrote:

The best scenes in my opinion were the disappearing pencil trick and Nurse Joker and the exploding hospital. 

Agreed with the caveat that those were the FUNNIEST and most charismatic, not necessarily the best..

RedRaider wrote:

Lastly someone had said that Batman decided to save Harvey instead of Rachel. I don't think this is true. He said he was going to save her and went to the address the Joker said she was at, only to find Harvey there.
The Joker set him up. . 

Don't believe there is any question here, the Joker had already called him out on having feelings for Rachel at that point, so he full well knew how to manipulate him. At the point when Batman got into the room and realized it was Harvey and not Rachel, it was clear the Joker had told him the opposite locations, much to both Batman and Harvey Dent's dismay as they were both counting on Rachel being saved.

RedRaider wrote:
I believe (or maybe it is wishful thinking) the detonators on the ferrys were for their own boats, not the other one. Whoever decided to blow up the other ferry would have actually blown up themselves. That's what the Joker would have done just for the fun of it.  

Again, agreed, this was perpetually flowing through my mind, I wanted to yell a warning to the people on the boats.
BanksIsDaFuture
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Joined: Apr 29, 2007 4:12 PM
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Did anyone else have a problem with Batman having sonar? I know it's entirely possible, and real bats actually do have sonar, but I thought it was a reach.
 
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